Today was... interesting. So is WP.

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Well, exactly what it says up there. "Interesting" was one way to characterize it. I want to talk about it and this seems the correct place to do so. I've got a nice little buzz going (a little booze is nice) so my thoughts flow freely, but are probably a bit disorganized. I'm not even sure this is the correct place for this since a good part of it is really just about my problems with this community (which are in no way an indictment of it, just want to make that clear). If there is a more suitable place for this, please let me know, moderator-types!

My work schedule is nuts this week. Not super-busy, but a strange mix of shifts. That's screwing with me. I'm kind of slogging through it and tending to run out of steam half way through the day. I'm tired, tense, sore and have to go to bed soon even though I just got home. Oh, also they just replaced the lights at work with LEDs, which are much nicer than the fluorescent ones they had before except I haven't adjusted to it yet (sensory issues!) so I've had a headache for four days.

Fun times (sarcasm!). Wanted to go hang out with some friends. I'll just say they must also be having an "interesting" week. Social issues are rough for me. I think maybe I'll tell a few friends I even have autism. I don't do that; I'm pretty sure I have blood relatives who don't know. This social stuff is strange, but I do love it. I watch "NTs". I do appreciate them and am struggling to get to the point where I can "connect" with them on a deeper level than I've managed so far.

I certainly haven't connected with other people on the spectrum. I've met a grand total of one person with autism who I can stand to be around in person. I consider him a friend of sorts, but it's hard to get through to him. Thinking of doing something with him this weekend, if he'll actually answer me. The thought that my weekend could potentially be spent with people I don't know half as well or (god forbid) by myself again is weighing on me heavily.

I hate being alone on my time off. Being alone is what I do after I get off work, when I'm tired of talking to customers for eight hours. When I have days off, I want to spend it with people I actually give a rat's ass about.

See, I got on here this morning. My relationship with WP is weird. I've committed to sticking it out for the month, but it seems like roughly two thirds of the time when I come here I end up in a worse mood than I was before. That's... weird. Sometimes it makes me sad. Others it pisses me off, which is what happened today. After pacing around my apartment for ten or fifteen minutes, occasionally finding an object which I could furiously beat on without damaging anything (so cathartic)... off to work! It certainly gave me a lot of energy, I probably would have skipped my first break. Union rules say I couldn't. Got really tired as soon as I stopped moving... I was thinking about this stuff the whole time.

Now, on to WP;

This place? It's great. A community for autistic folks? That's beautiful, and very much needed. Just... maybe not for me. Last time I ended up in something like that, I was in college. I collapsed into depression and failed all my classes. There are more than a few reasons I prefer the company of non-autistic people.

A lot of autistic people seem to incorporate autism into their identity. That's something I understand, I just can't do it. I've known I was autistic since I was five years old, and this isn't something that happened with me. Saying "us" and "we" about autistic people seems unnatural to me. I don't consider autism an important part of my identity, as much influence as it has had in shaping it. If anything, my struggling against it is a key part of my identity. At some point it became the Enemy, and things got a little better after that. Still a hard battle, since that war can't actually be won. The struggle itself makes me feel alive. It makes me feel better.

Everyone here (barring non-autistics) seems to fall into three broad categories:

- At peace with their autism
- Desiring peace with their autism
- Not desiring peace with it, and hating themselves as a result

I don't fit in any of these. I'm in the "I'm not letting this s**t rule my life" category. I don't make peace, I make war. Every day. Can I win? Well, I dunno. I've gained some ground and kind of slowed down in the last few years. But nobody else here seems to have this attitude and when I tell people that I don't see any silver lining here, that I don't think autism is a good thing for me or necessarily beneficial to humanity at large, when I say I think it's inherently a disability, impairment or defect I am told to feel better about myself.

If I don't feel well about myself, it's sure not because of ASD. Why would I feel bad about that? It's not like someone came up to me in the womb and offered me a form to fill out where I decided to have this. It just is. No point in ascribing any sort of negative feeling to the condition itself. I feel bad about a lot of things. It's not one of them. I just don't like it. It gets in the way of things that make me feel good about myself. I won't go into details, but there's no way it couldn't do that. Maybe it's not a problem for you. Maybe it works for you. It's a problem for me, and it doesn't work for me; but I accept that it's not going away. I can only find workarounds. Nobody seems to have them sometimes, I've often had to discover them myself. Sometimes I run out of ideas, and that's when I get really miserable.

Nobody told me to feel this way. Over 25 years plenty of people have tried to make me feel the opposite. That I should embrace ASD as something that is in some way positive. I resented almost all of them for it. Those closest to me know better by now. I am not looking for silver linings. I take offense at people trying to sell me one. I do not need one.

Basically, autism doesn't suit me. It is in conflict with who I am, hence the struggle. Pretty sure I'd rather die than make peace with it.

I've never met anyone else who feels this way. Not one person who makes war on it. I can easily find people who relate to the problems, but my perception of the problems and my solutions are radically different. It's a very lonely place to be. "NTs" can kind of get it when I explain, but can only go so far. Some of it is something they can conceptualize but not relate to. Nobody's ever checked both boxes.

It's a pretty lonely place to be. Being here reminds me of that loneliness a lot of the time. It's sad, because I've gotten some good out of it so far. I'm just not sure it's worth feeling so incredibly isolated, a feeling that sometimes (and without much warning) is kicked into overdrive just by talking about autistic issues with autistic people. It gives me what increasingly feels like false hope. Not having other autistic people who can talk about particularly autistic issues with me though? Also kind of hurts.

What I really want to know is... anyone else feel this way about their autism? Anyone on the same page (or even an adjacent page) with any of it? Or am I in completely the wrong place? I mean, if I can't find a single other person who has at least a somewhat similar attitude, I'm not sure this is a healthy place for me to be. Just makes me feel more isolated than ever and so it's maybe not worth any good I may get out of it. In that case, may be best to move on soon.

So... what's the deal?

I kind of know what you mean. Check your messages, I sent you something

I got it, thanks!

In my case there's nothing to wage war on. I've got depression and anxiety, which have been impacting my ability to function in life, but the autism itself isn't causing me any actual problems outside of socializing. My "quirks" have been part of who I am my entire life. I barely even heard of autism until about a month ago when my psychologist began talking about it. Just because I've got this label now doesn't mean I want to fundamentally alter myself.

I have low expectations of this place since I don't have problems that I need solved and feel that online friendships are no substitute for real ones. I'm new here so maybe in time I'll become more impressed, but for now this place seems pretty meh to me.

I have no interest in identifying myself with the AS group. As far as I'm concerned they're just a sub-group of people that are more likely to "get" me, but other than that I feel nothing for them. Every autistic could drop dead right now and I would feel nothing, same as if every regular joe dropped dead. I have no connection.

I guess you could say I make war with it.

I was diagnosed in 2014. Up until a few months ago I was still in the honeymoon phase of the diagnosis. It sort of made a lot of sense for many of my behaviors and my past. The interesting thing is I started going to a monthly support group for adults living independently with autism, and I started visiting this forum more regularly.

The more I experienced other people diagnosed with it, the more the diagnosis stopped feeling like a fit. I have been developing a few theories, but still in embryo. I am pretty much 50/50 at this point. Partly I believe it's a real diagnosis for me, partly I think it just doesn't fit.

Yeah, I hear you. I think it maybe causes more problems for me. A lot of stress, some executive functioning stuff. The social thing is huge for me, too. I'm a very socially-minded person who has this impairment to social skills, and that sucks.

I don't think much of online friendships either. I do think about solving problems, but have found that interacting with other autistic people can often create more problems than it solves. For me, at least. Have you found the same?



Maybe a bit of an extreme example? I get it, though. You don't associate yourself with that group. It's not part of you. That seems common for people who have recently introduced to it. Maybe it'll stay that way for you, I don't know. I've had 25 years of opportunities to incorporate it into my identity; ultimately I've rejected every one, because it never felt right. I never felt at home in that group.



You think maybe it's a misdiagnosis? It might not be. Most people aren't going to show every major symptom. But you should explore that on the chance that it is.

For me, it's 100% on me having ASD. The diagnosis is very real, it's just that I relate to it in a way that I've never seen in anyone else. It sounds like you have some similar feelings though; that you fight against it when you feel it is not working for you.

How doesn't it fit, for you?

I get very impatient, especially around other people on the spectrum. I don't understand how otherwise intelligent people fail to learn from experience. I also don't understand how someone can be made aware of the differences between NT and HFA communication and fail to incorporate it into their daily life. I view life as a constant experiment. There was a lot of stuff I didn't know how to do, especially socially, as a teenager. I look at my life as trial an error. With each error, I recalibrate. I have tendencies to autistic behavior, but as you say, I constantly fight it.

Maybe I think differently. I wonder sometimes if (high functioning) autism is a diagnosis that might apply more when one is a teenager/young adult, but becomes less relevant as a person ages and has a vaster repertoire of experience to draw on in each situation. I think I will always be uncomfortable with certain things, I'm just a lot more proficient with coping than I used to be.

I have found there is an attitude among some to use the diagnosis as an excuse. I also wonder how many people think that their present state is a permanent state. By that I mean that there will be no change, or evolution. I understand how people want to have a group to identify with, but I was raised to constantly strive for self-improvement and personal development. It's not that I don't like myself, it's just that I think there is ALWAYS room for improvement, no matter what the circumstances.

My general goal of late is to be a more well-rounded, balanced person. In many ways that goal is in direct opposition to the diagnosis. In no way does that discourage me. In fact, it just motivates me even more.

I ask you-- the diagnosis for you is very real. Is it less meaningful, or less encompassing than it was 25 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago...? Do you find the diagnosis defines you less and less?

Maybe that's where I'm at, even though I wasn't diagnosed as a child.

I only really know one autistic person and he doesn't cause problems. He's high functioning and it's done nothing to stop him from being successful, working around any problems it might have caused him. I have a cousin who had "Asperger's" last I heard but I haven't interacted with him much and never in situations where it could create problems.

I'm pretty young so my life experience is somewhat low. I expect dealing with other autistics would be no different to dealing with normal people. The majority will bore me and thus won't make good friends.



Is it extreme? I happen to be very fond of the phrase "so and so could drop dead for all I care". It's truthful and gets the point across. I'm not saying I want them to die, I'm just saying that I don't care. Anyone who takes offense to my statement can drop dead for all I care.

What differences are there apart from the eye contact and small talk stuff?

Put me on the spot! That's okay. I have incorporated so much of it into my interactions I actually have to pause and really think about it.

I think I will just mention what I notice in others at the group meetings I go to. The main thing is inability to gauge the interest level of others. Not necessarily just interest level, but also general emotional states do appear mystifing, too. Another thing I've noticed is general repetitiveness. I can kind of understand it, but I usually just get bored. I have one friend, a co-worker I've known nearly 10 years, who I suspect is on the spectrum. I liked talking to him occasionally, so then I tried hanging out more often with him. It was then that I started to notice the repetitiveness and in many ways futility of his life. It's that major roadblock for me. If I see someone doing the same thing over and over, knowing it doesn't work, well I have little tolerance for that.

I also notice how people in the groups tend to keep going back to one subject or topic whether or not it really relates to the discussion.

It makes them appear self-centered, or disinterested in other people. I can relate to it on one level, because I know I was in the same place at one time. What I cannot relate to is how they are stuck there. (reminder, I think it's important to clarify this group is for adults able to live independently, so all are high functioning, and that's why I have less patience)

To be fair, a lot of NT communication really bores or annoys me. I did say I lose patience with people. I detested small talk as a teenager, but I've learned to make the small talk an opportunity to learn and observe. If I'm thrown into an unfamiliar situation with someone I don't know, my fallback is to ask them a lot of questions about themselves. The thing is, most people (NT or not) are pretty predictable. All you have to do is ask some questions, observe, and I can figure out what motivates people. I think in some ways it just took me a lot longer to pick up on things that NTs do automatically (without rationalization).

I often think of life as a series of acting roles. I am at times an employee, student, son, husband, etc. I find myself behaving differently in each role. The fact that my life generally goes pretty well (and the few people I told about my diagnosis seemed surprised or doubtful) makes me think I'm a pretty good actor. For instance, I went to a party at the house of my wife's boss. We were there for an hour or so and she thought I was perfectly charming and entertaining, or so she told me when we were walking back to the car. I told her how exhausted it made me feel and how I would much rather be somewhere else alone and she seemed confused. She's gotten to know me better since then.

But, there's a lot of stuff I don't know. I'm still learning. That's the fun part, and that's life.

I am the Wolfman....and I don't give a rat's butt who cares about that!

Seriously....I am one who believes that people should do the best they can with what they got. With autism, one could have quite a bit, actually.

Asperger's is not a death sentence. It is not cancer. It is not even a Scarlet Letter type of thing. We have difficulties. Everybody (even NT's) have difficulties. We have to try to do the best we can amid the difficulties.

Well there is a huge faction of Autistics that actively seek a 'cure' and a huge faction that wants us to accept who we are. Personally, I think a lot of high functioning autistics don't understand that there are autistic people that suffer more with it. A lot more.

But since we're talking personal opinions, I fit half half. In one way I despise it. I hate that I have sensory overloads and that I struggle with mundane things other find perfectly simple. I hate that a conversation is something to 'get through'. I hate that I don't fit in anywhere, as I'm extremely extroverted. But in contrast, I love it. There are perks. I see things others don't. I understand things better. I'm more logical and can't understand the silly rituals neurotypicals always seem to do. My quirks can sometimes feel cool and enhanced. I'm more calculating and quicker.

So while being different is hard for me, and I hate that, I also feel improved in a way. It may sound narcissistic, but seeing things others don't makes me feel strong. So it's half half. But I feel that if I were to try and get rid of my Aspergers, I'd be getting rid of myself. Because it's a part of me. I can't really understand how you can get rid of yours. I mean, it's you. It's not some cancer forming on you, it's literally your entire self. You can't get rid of how you think and feel.

It is possible to accept that you have autism and still be pissed off at it and the pressures it puts on you. I accept that I am different. I have ADHD which is a pain in the ass all by itself and most likely have Asperger's which can hopefully get a proper diagnosis in April. I despise being different and having all these issues and roadblocks. I get angry more easily and have lousy social skills but I am also far more logical and capable of breaking things down into the simplest of terms as compared to the usual NT who blathers on and on in an attempt to sound impressive while beating a dead horse into bone meal.

In my case, I'm still trying to make peace with myself. Not just being on the autism spectrum, but just me as a whole. In a way, I'm still not over the abuse I dealt with as a child. It shattered my identity and has left emotional scars that may not ever heal. I'm still stuck in a mindset that I'm broken, damaged goods, and worth less than the rest of humanity.

I don't understand what you mean about making war with autism. I don't think it's a war really, just a fact of life that makes you different than a lot of other people. Difference isn't bad though, and I think that's what some people need to accept. Unfortunately, that's easier said than done.

One "makes war" on autism because one is frustrated with the "symptoms." Especially when there's sensory difficulties.

For myself, I've always known I was different. I suffered my entire life, struggling to fit in, to be successful, but never quite knowing what was wrong. I endured a lot of abuse from people. I was told I was bad, lazy, a geek, a weirdo, not good enough, not like other people, either directly or indirectly for most of my life.

So my whole life I've felt like a worthless piece of crap. A weirdo. There was no Asperger's when I was little. It didn't exist as a diagnosis until I was 12, and by that time, I was just a bad kid in everyone's eyes.

So I'd been making war my entire life against myself. Once I did all the research, I realized why I am this way. I'm in the process of getting a diagnosis. I want to find out what to do to fix my life so I can be happy.

But now I know why I'm this way, and it's not because I'm a bad person. There's no reason to make war against it. It's my biology, my personality. I can change my behaviors to an extent, but I can't change my personality.

So I'm working to be at peace with who I am, and fighting to get a better life, but I'm not fighting myself. That would be pointless. I am who I am, and yes, there are some positives as well as negatives. I'm not better or worse than NTs. I'm different.

I will adapt to the world because it won't adapt to me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change myself or that it's even possible.

So I make war against my crappy life, not myself. And make peace with myself (or at least try).