How to stop getting into Internet arguments?

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rats_and_cats
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29 Jul 2016, 4:43 pm

I hold a LOT of minority opinions on a lot of things, and every time I get into an argument with people I hate myself and think I'm stupid because I can't keep debating. Even if I know I'm right, I still assume I'm wrong and stupid if I can't make a successful argument. It takes a lot out of me. Sometimes people get mad at me for things I didn't think would be controversial, but most of the time I see something that angers me, like some generalization about people in a certain group, and I can't resist commenting. How do I stop doing this? It's taking a lot out of me and ruining my self esteem. It shouldn't. I should be strong enough to not let other people's opinions affect me, but I'm a wimp. Sorry I keep talking about myself.



kraftiekortie
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29 Jul 2016, 4:52 pm

Just argue reasonably. Don't call people names. Argue the idea, not the person.

Everybody's entitled to their opinion.

What sort of "minority" opinions do you hold?

(Don't worry, I won't argue with you :wink: )



rats_and_cats
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29 Jul 2016, 5:43 pm

I try to argue the idea and not the person, but the people I argue with apparently can spend a lot of time doing research and writing thesis papers on why they're right.

The opinions that get me in the most trouble are: pro-life, against illegal immigration, against pit bull bans, and religious.



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29 Jul 2016, 5:48 pm

I think it would be worse though if nothing bothers you at all. if you don't care that much because it's makes everything seem boring



kraftiekortie
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29 Jul 2016, 5:48 pm

Theses and research papers have their place; but they don't reveal the truth more than life experience reveals the truth.

As for me, I'm pro-choice, but I believe in a ban of all abortions past the second trimester.

America is a nation of immigrants; this is what made us great.

These days, people can't just emigrate here for a better life; they usually have to marry an American to get a Green Card. Many "illegal" people really WANT to be legal. Yes, there are some illegal immigrants who are criminals--but so are legal immigrants and American citizens.

I don't really care for pit bulls; but I don't believe in banning them. I just believe in training them right.

And I'm an atheist.

Those are my views; you have different views. Such is life living in the world.



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29 Jul 2016, 5:50 pm

Simple really. Shut up.



rats_and_cats
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29 Jul 2016, 7:46 pm

My problem is that I can't shut up and keep my wrong opinions to myself. If it were that easy I wouldn't have posted this thread.



naturalplastic
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29 Jul 2016, 9:04 pm

Wrongplanet might not be a good place for you- actually its okay- as long as a person like you avoids the PPR subforum. Lol!
+++++++++++++++++

You have strong convictions, but you don't have the book learning to argue your pov. But you cant resist speaking up when you object to another Net citizen's opinions.

So you keep getting into gunfights even though you're only armed with a butter knife.

That seems to be your dilemma.

The only options: get better armed ( ie study up on issues), or change your opinions (maybe everyone else is right after all), or just avoid fights by learning to NOT speak up.

If you opt for the last, then the problem is resisting the temptation to speak up.

Just check your ego at the door is all that you can do.

If folks on a website express opinions that you object to just imagine that their statements are like bullets hitting a forcefield around you, and that they dont hit you in the ego so there is no pain, and you can move on to some other topic.

Also find ways to sidestep trouble when you see it coming from afar.

Ive been known to get into occasional vigorous differences of opinion here on WP, but there are certain things Ive learned to avoid:like threads that are obvious flame bait.

Threads with titles like "are all republicans doo doo heads?", or "Do all liberals have cooties?". Partisan from the get go. So you know that clicking into that thread will make your blood boil, so you move on and dont even look at it.



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29 Jul 2016, 9:24 pm

Quote:
Even if I know I'm right, I still assume I'm wrong and stupid if I can't make a successful argument.


Don't start from the assumption that because someone disagrees with you that you are wrong. Start from the proposition that everything you believe is right and that holders of contrary views are wrong, with the important proviso to recognize that it is entirely possible that you are wrong and that it is the holders of contrary views who are right. That should give you a rational perspective. I've found this approach to be useful in sorting out my own views over time.


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Dox47
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29 Jul 2016, 10:13 pm

Try and think of it more like a sport and less like a life and death struggle, and the people you argue with 'opponents' and not 'enemies', might make it a bit less intense for you.


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29 Jul 2016, 10:20 pm

in my opinion, you can only win an argument when you're not in it to either win or lose

if you want to build an argument, you need to start from the assumption that your opponent is right, and then deconstruct it to match your belief. if in the end it turns out that it was your belief that got deconstructed by yourself in the process, you learned something new. you win :)


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30 Jul 2016, 12:22 am

I had that problem, too. I finally learned to shut up when I began to understand why people routinely defeated me by pointing out that I wouldn’t have the balls to tell them the same things to their faces. And this happened even though I didn’t intentionally insult them; rather, after I objected to their ideas, they were quick to steer the argument into attacking me personally and I’d spend the rest of the time in a futile attempt to defend myself.


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30 Jul 2016, 2:12 am

Spiderpig wrote:
I had that problem, too. I finally learned to shut up when I began to understand why people routinely defeated me by pointing out that I wouldn’t have the balls to tell them the same things to their faces. And this happened even though I didn’t intentionally insult them; rather, after I objected to their ideas, they were quick to steer the argument into attacking me personally and I’d spend the rest of the time in a futile attempt to defend myself.

that's unfortunately where the art of "debating" actually lies in practice. "ad hominem", and how to respond to it. if you're in a situation where simply ignoring personal attacks will have actual consequences (which is usually the case in high school, for instance), then you're doomed, and there's probably not much you can do other than try to keep your distance and find someone else to associate with. when it doesn't have actual consequences though (this website itself being an excellent example), then you can practice and practice and practice again

the first thing is, you need to keep your cool. people will try to anger you, it's simply how it works almost invariably. but even if they're attacking you, it's not about you, it's about them. it's just what they do, and you just happen to be involved. with that in mind, the second thing is learning to spot when people are cherry-picking or drifting away from the topic itself and talking about marginally related things that happen to evoke more emotion (especially anger, because anger tends to be destabilizing and it clouds your judgement)

when you notice that someone says something in order to make you angry, that means opportunity. they may be winning from an intimidation-based standpoint, but they're actually vulnerable from a rational standpoint. arrogance is blindness. don't attack them back, and don't instantly show your arguments either. just pretend you're buying into whatever crap they're saying, and keep asking questions about it. the key is to use their own arguments against them, because they'll inevitably contradict themselves

or, short version: proving yourself right is largely irrelevant in debate. you prove your opponent wrong instead


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rats_and_cats
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30 Jul 2016, 6:57 am

I have a feeling some of these replies are a bit biased because people disagree with my opinions.

I have no desire to debate with people because it takes a lot of effort to research enough to defend my viewpoint when people on the Internet usually aren't interested in actual debate, they're more interested in converting someone else to their beliefs. I might do more research so that I can have more informed opinions, but I've never been in a "friendly" debate on the Internet. It usually goes like this:

Me - I think you have a misconception about this group. Most of us actually believe this instead of that.
Person - You're brainwashed so I don't have to listen to you.

I know they're trolls and I shouldn't feed them or whatever, and I'm probably an awful person for continuing these arguments, but I'm not sure how to stop it.



kraftiekortie
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30 Jul 2016, 7:03 am

Use your life experience in complement with research findings.

One cannot justify being pro-life with research findings. This is an emotional issue which deals with the definition of "life." I'm pro-choice, but I respect pro-life opinions.



rats_and_cats
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30 Jul 2016, 11:57 pm

Actually, you can use scientific research to defend being pro-life. Women who have abortions are more likely to have mental health issues such as depression, as well as reproductive issues should they try to get pregnant again. Also, since Planned Parenthood doesn't have many health and safety regulations, the surgery carries a high risk of complications that could be fatal. Even ignoring the "scientific definition of life" and "they're human cells from the start" arguments, abortion isn't as safe and easy as it's made out to be.

...see, this is what I mean about not being able to avoid arguments.