suicide

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Why do people punish others for feeling bad? Why do they take it on themselves and then push you away because 'they can't handle how bad you're feeling'? Why do they blame you for it, blame you for telling them exactly how bad you feel and exactly what thoughts and actions go through your mind? How are people so egocentric that they take that on themselves? And why are there countless self-help things that say that telling someone that you're suicidal is manipulative?

The manipulation thing really pisses me off. Describing oneself isn't manipulation. If that's the only way you can possibly deal with someone who is suicidal, by thinking of them as manipulative and therefore you are able to distance yourself from them, then you're all sorts of f****d up.

Describing oneself can be considered manipulation if the person making the description is expecting certain results, like instant friendship, a hand-out, or a "pity-party" on their behalf.

People looking for monetary handouts often describe their situations as hopeless. Just the other day, a man limped up to me outside a store, looked at my service jacket, and started describing how he was drafted into the Navy Seals, wounded in action, experimented on in the hospital, divorced by his wife, and how no one would hire him because he was a cripple.

If I hadn't seen him earlier getting out of his late-model Chevy and walking unassisted into a nearby liquor store, I might have fallen for his phony sob story - he was just trying to manipulate me into giving him money for more booze.

Men and women have described their exes as trying to manipulate them with threats of suicide - "If you leave me, I'll kill myself", "If you don't marry me, I'll kill myself", "If you won't go out with me, I'll kill myself", et cetera ... that degree of ultimatum indicates a level of desperation that attempts to place all of the guilt squarely on the person being manipulated.

Manipulation happens. If it happened less often, then the people in real need might get more support.

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T minus 16 and counting

Last edited by Fnord on 06 Sep 2016, 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey i hope your ok? ... People tend to react more to things they experience in their lives, when new or rare experiences occur it can be baffling for anyone good and bad, then throw in high emotion that all people can have a hard time dealing with and it can become an overload to many on any spectrum... People often dont know what to say when they are faced with a situation they cant relate to or have little experience relating too and may also feel they have no idea what to say because saying the wrong thing could put someone over the edge... people may get angry and maybe blame someone for putting them in a situation they are not familiar with and dont know how to cope or handle it... Its not always about people not listening or understanding, its simply because they dont know how.... I have experienced this in a number of situations including those that are terminal, and you often see some life long friends suddenly disappear from the scene leaving the individual with the illness bewildered and confused, when again in reality they dont know how to deal with the situation... I often hear from those people afterwards and they feel very real regret but were terrified and had know idea what to do or say, and their survival instincts kick in and they flee the situation that causes them the most fear and uncomforte....

There are different examples for different reasons, this was just one...... Please dont feel bad im sure they all care for you deeply! It is hard to see anything positive when in this state...and some will use anger to deal with the situation, some may even laugh and some cry, people react differently to different situations depending on experiences

I know this may not give you much comfort and im truly sorry! but also trying to give you a point of view from the other angle you may not have realized...
Take care of yourself eh!

And if the person is thinking 'if you leave me I'll probably kill myself?' Why then is saying that manipulative? My thoughts and actions are my own, not yours. I am expressing myself, sharing myself. It is a truth of my perception at the time, not a manipulation. That people take it as one is not my fault. If someone feels guilty for what they do or don't do, that's also not my fault. I don't feel guilty for saying what I am and I shouldn't have people tell me that for expressing that by having someone tell me that my words regarding myself are manipulative to them. I do not control their feelings and actions towards me. If they feel like its manipulation, then they are thinking the wrong thing of me. But alas, the internet and society choose to say that it is always manipulative, and therefore everyone has come to that conclusion, instead of taking something at face value.

It ultimately comes down to someone breaking up with someone suicidal, and them not being able to deal with the reality of the situation. By calling that manipulation, it simply is the creation of a reality to the person who is going to leave so that they feel better about themselves. No one is going to stay with someone who they think is manipulating them and they will think poorly of them for it, and it no doubt eases the hurt of leaving that person enormously. Even though its a lie and even more harmful to the other person who is now being told more negative things about themselves, and who is being misinterpreted (yet again for me.)

No one says that you can't leave still and not think of the person as being manipulative. If you can't deal with a person's thoughts and expressions, ffs leave them. You don't need to pretend anything.

If nothing else, the truth cannot be manipulative.

And yes, generally when people express themselves, they are more apt to get what they want. That's not manipulation either.

I also pretty much hate any advice and things that say 'this is the right way to do things and think of things' when one person ends up being hurt from it when there are ways around that. Clearly, that's not the right way to do something, that is NOT proper psychological help, because it just ends up putting the other person in a worse place. Overall happiness of the world decreases. That's wrong.


ARGH, the manipulation thing is even worse because suicidal people undoubtably know that people take them as attention seekers, looking for help, etc. That idea likely prevents countless individuals from sharing their thoughts with loved ones in general about suicide, which just masks the problem. Even if the loved one ends up leaving, at least they're now AWARE that this person is suicidal and can then at least, you know, take them to the hospital or tell that person's friends or something that they are. Plenty of break-ups happen and the person commits suicide afterwards, it's, like, a huge cause of suicide, break-ups. We can only help these people if their intentions are known.

I am guilty of using suicide as a manipulation technique... Not something I'm proud of. And I have been genuinely suicidal and have some pretty severe mental health problems, in my defence.

I think that whether a suicide threat is forgivable or just a nasty manipulation technique is for the respective parties involved to decide. We shouldn't generalise, and we shouldn't judge situations regarding suicide threats unless we are personally involved in with the suicidal person and their friends and family.

It's a very personal issue and should be treated with respect by outsiders.

Thank you for sharing that Xitheon. I feel better about myself now. Its hard to share our faults.

I didn't manipulate to try to keep him. I was positively overt with my harassment and begging to the point of offering myself as a slave.

Honestly the ratio of how often suicide goes through my head versus how often I tell someone is like, probably a hundred thousand to one. That I would say something about it in times of stress, when I am sharing my thoughts, should really not be a surprise.

In my own life and experiences with intense emotional attachments, I've come to realize I've used suicide as a threat many times. Even if it were true. Because the times I've said it I wasn't the slightest bit kidding. However expressing that as a rebuttal to some form of rejection will be perceived as a threat or guilt-laden bludgeoning tool no matter how true it may be in your mental state. It's a fruitless thing to say to the very person who's causing it and will only make your interactions more mutually stressful. I know it's a hard feeling to contain but it only makes matters more difficult.