Snippy response to friend's comment costs friendship

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androbot01
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07 Feb 2017, 6:01 pm

I am a dufus. We weren't close but we have known each other for 10 years. In the past she has made such comments to me when I have mentioned my symptoms to her as "everyone does that," or "there's nothing wrong with you." I have ignored them as I like her and it is not surprising that she would not understand my descriptions as she is mentally healthy.

Anyway, I went on FB and totally put my foot in my mouth. This other person who I don't know posted an article about a mental disorder and my friend posted "everybody does that." So I posted that this attempt at inclusion leads to abuse because it denies the person's challenges and difficulties (only not as diplomatically.)

So I guess I can kiss that friendship goodbye; although it was only in embers anyway. I don't know why I can't keep my mouth shut sometimes.



smudge
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07 Feb 2017, 6:37 pm

^ Because, if you always have to keep your mouth shut around someone, they're not worth being friends with. She sounds annoying.


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kraftiekortie
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07 Feb 2017, 6:39 pm

Don't think it's a lost cause---until your friend says it's a lost cause.

She has known you a while. She probably knows how blunt you can get.

I wonder if writing a letter to her, explaining your views, and what you've gone through, would be useful.



the_phoenix
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07 Feb 2017, 6:45 pm

Maybe you can apologize to your friend for the way you said what you did,
while restating what you meant in the more diplomatic way?
"this attempt at inclusion leads to abuse because it denies the person's challenges and difficulties."

I might suggest rephrasing your quote above it to soften it just a little
by changing "leads" to "can lead":
"This attempt at inclusion can lead to abuse because it denies the person's challenges and difficulties."

That said, I do see what smudge is saying as well. If you feel you're walking on eggshells around a friend to the point where it's a habit or constant, that isn't much of a friendship.

I recently risked losing a friendship by standing up for myself when a couple of people laughed at me for my interest in (of course) Star Trek. The reason why I decided to risk the friendship was because it went way deeper than Star Trek ... it was a case where they hadn't taken the time to get to know me in depth, and just saw me based on the superficial stereotype they wanted to apply, basically judging without understanding.

How I handled it was to ask why it was perfectly acceptable to be a huge football fan, spending lots of hours and money watching or attending games, buying tickets or clothing with the team's logo on it, screaming your brains out in the freezing winter cold after painting your body in the team's colors ... but why is it not acceptable to be a science fiction fan? In the end, I received an apology, and the friendship continues on, with peace having been made.

Anyways, I wish you the best.



Spyoon
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07 Feb 2017, 6:55 pm

I think it is your friends obligation to apologise, give explanations and repair the relationship not the other way round. :|


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kraftiekortie
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07 Feb 2017, 6:58 pm

I think both should apologize to each other, and have a dialogue instead of dismissing each other.



the_phoenix
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07 Feb 2017, 6:58 pm

Spyoon wrote:
I think it is your friends obligation to apologise, give explanations and repair the relationship not the other way round. :|


It does sound like the friend has not been overly understanding in the past,
so I can see the friend needing to apologize as well ...
(and my apologies for not being clearer ...
in my previous post, I was referring only to the Facebook exchange.)



Last edited by the_phoenix on 07 Feb 2017, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spyoon
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07 Feb 2017, 7:24 pm

But how and why can you apologise and how was your friend wronged?Can someone give a hypothetical example pls?
( Clearly clueless person here- I am not claiming to know what is the right thing that should be done , I have only shared an opinion )


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androbot01
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07 Feb 2017, 7:26 pm

smudge wrote:
^ Because, if you always have to keep your mouth shut around someone, they're not worth being friends with. She sounds annoying.

Good point. If I can't be myself, then it's not areal friendship.

kraftiekortie wrote:
She has known you a while. She probably knows how blunt you can get.

Lol. True. I will wait for her to make contact. If she does.

the_phoenix wrote:
In the end, I received an apology, and the friendship continues on, with peace having been made.

That's encouraging. I'm glad it worked out for you.

Spyoon wrote:
I think it is your friends obligation to apologise, give explanations and repair the relationship not the other way round. :|

Thanks. I appreciate your perspective. ;)

Spyoon wrote:
But how and why can you apologise and how was your friend wronged?Can someone give a hypothetical example pls?)

I will not be apologizing except perhaps for my tone.



kraftiekortie
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07 Feb 2017, 7:30 pm

Suppose somebody says he/she is depressed. And you say "everybody gets depressed." By you saying that, you are invalidating the other person's depression. You are not allowing the other person to speak about his/her depression, thereby precluding the person from receiving any support.

That's why the other person should apologize to the depressed person.

By the same token, the depressed person, instead of getting rough with the other person, and berating the other person, should use more diplomatic language. This would serve to teach the other person that they are invalidated the depressed person by dismissing the depression. If put in a diplomatic way, it can serve as a teaching moment for the person who was invalidating the other person's depression.

Berating another person for apparent ignorance serves no purpose, really. Nothing gets accomplished that way. The only thing that happens is that two people get their feelings hurt.



androbot01
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07 Feb 2017, 7:42 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
By the same token, the depressed person, instead of getting rough with the other person, and berating the other person, should use more diplomatic language. This would serve to teach the other person that they are invalidated the depressed person by dismissing the depression. If put in a diplomatic way, it can serve as a teaching moment for the person who was invalidating the other person's depression.

Berating another person for apparent ignorance serves no purpose, really. Nothing gets accomplished that way. The only thing that happens is that two people get their feelings hurt.

Sure, but the mentally healthy so often disregard the things that I face; it is hard not to get annoyed.



justkillingtime
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07 Feb 2017, 7:51 pm

androbot01 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
By the same token, the depressed person, instead of getting rough with the other person, and berating the other person, should use more diplomatic language. This would serve to teach the other person that they are invalidated the depressed person by dismissing the depression. If put in a diplomatic way, it can serve as a teaching moment for the person who was invalidating the other person's depression.

Berating another person for apparent ignorance serves no purpose, really. Nothing gets accomplished that way. The only thing that happens is that two people get their feelings hurt.

Sure, but the mentally healthy so often disregard the things that I face; it is hard not to get annoyed.


Maybe, she is not all that mentally healthy. She seems unusually dismissive and insensitive.


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Spyoon
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07 Feb 2017, 7:54 pm

androbot01 wrote:
[...]I will not be apologizing except perhaps for my tone.

kraftiekortie wrote:
Suppose somebody says he/she is depressed. And you say "everybody gets depressed." By you saying that, you are invalidating the other person's depression. You are not allowing the other person to speak about his/her depression, thereby precluding the person from receiving any support.

That's why the other person should apologize to the depressed person.

By the same token, the depressed person, instead of getting rough with the other person, and berating the other person, should use more diplomatic language. This would serve to teach the other person that they are invalidated the depressed person by dismissing the depression. If put in a diplomatic way, it can serve as a teaching moment for the person who was invalidating the other person's depression.

Berating another person for apparent ignorance serves no purpose, really. Nothing gets accomplished that way. The only thing that happens is that two people get their feelings hurt.

Thanks for replying.
I tend to think of communicating anger as acceptable (as long as you don't insult, mock or threaten other people of course)
I might need to apologize to a friend of mine too then. :(


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kraftiekortie
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07 Feb 2017, 8:02 pm

To me, there's nothing wrong with expressing anger.

But it's better if you do it calmly.

At least it is for me. I tend to block out people who yell at me.

What exactly did you do that you feel like you need to apologize?



kraftiekortie
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07 Feb 2017, 8:06 pm

Trust me, Ann. I get annoyed and frustrated at people's stupidity as well. But just telling them off usually doesn't solve anything. I do see what you're saying, honestly. I do understand why you would get annoyed.

Just like if I do something wrong. Even though I, yes, did something wrong, I still don't listen to somebody who yells at me or berates me. I do, however, listen to somebody express their anger in a more conversational way. I try harder to see what the person is saying when a person talks to me calmly. That's just me. I rebel against somebody yelling and berating me---because I just don't think I like to be spoken to in that manner.

Other people might respond to irritation, yelling, etc. I've never gotten anywhere with it----and nobody's gotten anywhere with it when it's turned on me.



Spyoon
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07 Feb 2017, 8:58 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
To me, there's nothing wrong with expressing anger.

But it's better if you do it calmly.

At least it is for me. I tend to block out people who yell at me.

What exactly did you do that you feel like you need to apologize?

It was a very similar situation , except it involved my best friend and the coversation (via written messages)was not ''public''. Fairly common, right?
In my case I think I managed to hurt her feelings but nothing else changed - meaning she still sends me the kind of articles/pictures that annoy me every once in a while.


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