I wish there was an alternative earth-world
20 May 2019, 6:17 pm
I feel overall pessimistic about society and how many things are falling apart. We are like Idiocracy, these things will only get worse and our fall is irreversible. It's leading us down to eventual chaos. Masses of ignorant people are being deliberately lied to and brainwashed. The thing I would like if we can't reverse things, I would like if me and others personally got back at those elites and they will then be in our position.
I am not trying to sound like I have knowledge in something I don't, but I have heard in passing of theories of alternative universes. I'm not making any further claims, but if that was like an alternative earth-universe where certain events were different and if we humans had some degree of control that would be great but I'm not putting any serious hopes. Unfortunately, even if alternative universes really exist we wouldn't be able to access them because of wormholes (that's just another very theoretical speculation and so far undo-able for humans). I hate that the version of life on earth we are stuck on and the creations of humanity on it has to be only in a state of progressive fall. Even if I don't agree with religion much too, I still believe God exists and I do take the idea that he dictated that man will be born with a perpetual tendency to evil (or anything whatever he defines as wrong or sinful).
This goes back to me being in despair about the shape of society and politics today. I think about these big things. I'm not excited about the religious idea of heaven either if I do die, at least I would like my side to have "our turn" on those in the world who are the most wicked and live it...you know, I'm rambling on too deep here.
20 May 2019, 7:17 pm
Quote:
I'm not excited about the religious idea of heaven either
Why not? If you hate that human beings are inclined to evil, and God sent Christ to fix this, why would you not care about the only place where humans aren't wicked?
You know, cancer is a allegory for the rebellion in heaven, because the individual cells in your body understand that they don't get to reproduce, cancer is basically the cells in your body rebelling against the head and reproducing uncontrollably on their own, they deny the head and decide to serve themselves.
That is the essence of Satan's rebellion in heaven and why humans are ultimately doomed without Christ. Humans are supposed to form a hierarchy with God as our head, if we rebel against the head, then God, as the master-surgeon that he is, is going to cut us off from his body. Cancer is an allegory for the rebellion in heaven, if we deny God as our head, then we doom ourselves because a body cannot function without a head.
Thus without God, humans incline themselves to destruction and evil.
Truth be told, the world is fine but humans are not, and how can an imperfect creation make itself perfect? It can't, you need the perfect creator to make the imperfect perfect.
Quote:
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 22
Quote:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 42-45
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 42-45
Quote:
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Corinthians 50
Quote:
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Corinthians 54
There IS another world where we are meant to be, but it's not this one, you can already hear God nudging you towards this direction, but you're not yet fully committed, I urge you to keep listening to that voice that tells you that something is wrong with this world, because the more you explore that question the more you begin to understand why God sent an ambassador to this world, to negotiate with humans on how to escape this world and its evil. There is only ONE way to escape this horrible world.
Quote:
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. John 15:1-4
Quote:
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.That is why the world hates you. John 1:18-19
20 May 2019, 7:46 pm
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
... I am not trying to sound like I have knowledge in something I don't, but I have heard in passing of theories of alternative universes. I'm not making any further claims, but if that was like an alternative earth-universe where certain events were different and if we humans had some degree of control that would be great but I'm not putting any serious hopes. Unfortunately, even if alternative universes really exist we wouldn't be able to access them ...
Interesting. How far back would you want the divergence?About 4.5 billion years ago (or so the speculation goes) a Mars-sized world (Theia) collided with an Earth-sized world (Gaia) in or near Earth's current orbit. The debris that was thrown off became the Moon, and the two cores that stuck together became the Earth. From this event, we have the tectonic plates, the continents as they are today, Lunar tides, and dense metals near the Earth's surface.
Had the collision not occurred, there would be no Moon, no Lunar tides (and thus no churning of the primordial sea), no plate tectonics, and less abundance of dense elements near the Earth's surface. The continents would look nothing like they do today, and the oceans might even cover 80 to 90 percent of the Earth's surface.
Now, let the clock run forward. What is the likelihood that life would evolve and develop on land? When might it occur? What forms would it take? Would it develop enough intelligence to produce agriculture, a written language, and the Scientific Method? Without heavy metals, would Science even exist?
Would it even be human?
Most popular speculations of alternate Earths seem to focus on recorded historical events that affected humanity on a global scale. I wonder what would have happened if certain geological, or even astronomical events had not occurred.
What do you think?
_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
20 May 2019, 7:57 pm
SecretOpossumCabal wrote:
Quote:
I'm not excited about the religious idea of heaven either
Why not? If you hate that human beings are inclined to evil, and God sent Christ to fix this, why would you not care about the only place where humans aren't wicked?
You know, cancer is a allegory for the rebellion in heaven, because the individual cells in your body understand that they don't get to reproduce, cancer is basically the cells in your body rebelling against the head and reproducing uncontrollably on their own, they deny the head and decide to serve themselves.
That is the essence of Satan's rebellion in heaven and why humans are ultimately doomed without Christ. Humans are supposed to form a hierarchy with God as our head, if we rebel against the head, then God, as the master-surgeon that he is, is going to cut us off from his body. Cancer is an allegory for the rebellion in heaven, if we deny God as our head, then we doom ourselves because a body cannot function without a head.
Thus without God, humans incline themselves to destruction and evil.
Truth be told, the world is fine but humans are not, and how can an imperfect creation make itself perfect? It can't, you need the perfect creator to make the imperfect perfect.
Quote:
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 22
Quote:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 42-45
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 42-45
Quote:
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Corinthians 50
Quote:
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Corinthians 54
There IS another world where we are meant to be, but it's not this one, you can already hear God nudging you towards this direction, but you're not yet fully committed, I urge you to keep listening to that voice that tells you that something is wrong with this world, because the more you explore that question the more you begin to understand why God sent an ambassador to this world, to negotiate with humans on how to escape this world and its evil. There is only ONE way to escape this horrible world.
Quote:
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. John 15:1-4
Quote:
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.That is why the world hates you. John 1:18-19
I thought the purpose of the Haven was to offer comfort or practical advice for those in crisis. How is proselytizing helpful? Personally, I think this is nothing more than religious spam.
_________________
What do you call a hot dog in a gangster suit?
Oscar Meyer Lansky
20 May 2019, 8:02 pm
@Hollywood_Guy: I'm hoping that you'll describe for us the ideal alternate Earth you would like to see.
Please give it a shot.
_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
20 May 2019, 8:23 pm
SecretOpossumCabal wrote:
Quote:
I'm not excited about the religious idea of heaven either
Why not? If you hate that human beings are inclined to evil, and God sent Christ to fix this, why would you not care about the only place where humans aren't wicked?
You know, cancer is a allegory for the rebellion in heaven, because the individual cells in your body understand that they don't get to reproduce, cancer is basically the cells in your body rebelling against the head and reproducing uncontrollably on their own, they deny the head and decide to serve themselves.
That is the essence of Satan's rebellion in heaven and why humans are ultimately doomed without Christ. Humans are supposed to form a hierarchy with God as our head, if we rebel against the head, then God, as the master-surgeon that he is, is going to cut us off from his body. Cancer is an allegory for the rebellion in heaven, if we deny God as our head, then we doom ourselves because a body cannot function without a head.
Thus without God, humans incline themselves to destruction and evil.
Truth be told, the world is fine but humans are not, and how can an imperfect creation make itself perfect? It can't, you need the perfect creator to make the imperfect perfect.
Quote:
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 22
Quote:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 42-45
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 42-45
Quote:
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Corinthians 50
Quote:
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Corinthians 54
There IS another world where we are meant to be, but it's not this one, you can already hear God nudging you towards this direction, but you're not yet fully committed, I urge you to keep listening to that voice that tells you that something is wrong with this world, because the more you explore that question the more you begin to understand why God sent an ambassador to this world, to negotiate with humans on how to escape this world and its evil. There is only ONE way to escape this horrible world.
Quote:
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. John 15:1-4
Quote:
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.That is why the world hates you. John 1:18-19
I think that is good and all, but why can't there be a "middle" neutral or third option between Heaven/good and Hell/evil?
20 May 2019, 9:27 pm
SecretOpossumCabal wrote:
Quote:
I'm not excited about the religious idea of heaven either
Why not? If you hate that human beings are inclined to evil, and God sent Christ to fix this, why would you not care about the only place where humans aren't wicked?
You know, cancer is a allegory for the rebellion in heaven, because the individual cells in your body understand that they don't get to reproduce, cancer is basically the cells in your body rebelling against the head and reproducing uncontrollably on their own, they deny the head and decide to serve themselves.
That is the essence of Satan's rebellion in heaven and why humans are ultimately doomed without Christ. Humans are supposed to form a hierarchy with God as our head, if we rebel against the head, then God, as the master-surgeon that he is, is going to cut us off from his body. Cancer is an allegory for the rebellion in heaven, if we deny God as our head, then we doom ourselves because a body cannot function without a head.
Thus without God, humans incline themselves to destruction and evil.
Truth be told, the world is fine but humans are not, and how can an imperfect creation make itself perfect? It can't, you need the perfect creator to make the imperfect perfect.
Quote:
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 22
Quote:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 42-45
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 42-45
Quote:
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Corinthians 50
Quote:
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Corinthians 54
There IS another world where we are meant to be, but it's not this one, you can already hear God nudging you towards this direction, but you're not yet fully committed, I urge you to keep listening to that voice that tells you that something is wrong with this world, because the more you explore that question the more you begin to understand why God sent an ambassador to this world, to negotiate with humans on how to escape this world and its evil. There is only ONE way to escape this horrible world.
Quote:
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. John 15:1-4
Quote:
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.That is why the world hates you. John 1:18-19
Nobody in the world hates me. I’m a reasonably likable person, though.
_________________
“The darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”
— from Four Quartets by T.S. Eliot
20 May 2019, 9:31 pm
Unless if there is a near-extinction or catastrophe like global nuclear war or an EMP electric grid strike where you are located, you are pretty much done with living anyway and are facing factors outside of one's control.
I also worry about my life or the world here ending while I'm still in my relative youth age.
20 May 2019, 9:36 pm
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Unless if there is a near-extinction or catastrophe like global nuclear war or an EMP electric grid strike where you are located, you are pretty much done with living anyway and are facing factors outside of one's control.
I also worry about my life or the world here ending while I'm still in my relative youth age.
I also worry about my life or the world here ending while I'm still in my relative youth age.
You can’t spend your life worrying about the “what ifs.” That’ll keep you from enjoying the good stuff now. We’re pretty lucky to be alive and human at all. I suspect that it’d be much less pleasant to be a dung beetle.
The world could come to an end tomorrow but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t enjoy today. Or you could channel some energy into some sort of activism that appeals to you.
_________________
“The darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”
— from Four Quartets by T.S. Eliot
20 May 2019, 10:00 pm
Twilightprincess wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Unless if there is a near-extinction or catastrophe like global nuclear war or an EMP electric grid strike where you are located, you are pretty much done with living anyway and are facing factors outside of one's control.
I also worry about my life or the world here ending while I'm still in my relative youth age.
I also worry about my life or the world here ending while I'm still in my relative youth age.
You can’t spend your life worrying about the “what ifs.” That’ll keep you from enjoying the good stuff now. We’re pretty lucky to be alive and human at all. I suspect that it’d be much less pleasant to be a dung beetle.
The world could come to an end tomorrow but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t enjoy today. Or you could channel some energy into some sort of activism that appeals to you.
I accept that but I also can't help having the feelings sometimes. And the stuff I described arguably is becoming more probable again. If it wasn't Russia and America in the 80s it would only be put off for possibly my own lifetime.
20 May 2019, 10:04 pm
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Unless if there is a near-extinction or catastrophe like global nuclear war or an EMP electric grid strike where you are located, you are pretty much done with living anyway and are facing factors outside of one's control.
I also worry about my life or the world here ending while I'm still in my relative youth age.
I also worry about my life or the world here ending while I'm still in my relative youth age.
You can’t spend your life worrying about the “what ifs.” That’ll keep you from enjoying the good stuff now. We’re pretty lucky to be alive and human at all. I suspect that it’d be much less pleasant to be a dung beetle.
The world could come to an end tomorrow but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t enjoy today. Or you could channel some energy into some sort of activism that appeals to you.
I accept that but I also can't help having the feelings sometimes. And the stuff I described arguably is becoming more probable again. If it wasn't Russia and America in the 80s it would only be put off for possibly my own lifetime.
You seem to be hyperfocusing on an unhealthy special interest. Worrying about this stuff isn’t going to change anything. Could you start engaging more in another interest that appeals to you?
_________________
“The darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”
— from Four Quartets by T.S. Eliot
20 May 2019, 10:21 pm
VegetableMan wrote:
I thought the purpose of the Haven was to offer comfort or practical advice for those in crisis. How is proselytizing helpful? Personally, I think this is nothing more than religious spam.
OP's point is an existential one, which Christianity deals with, nobody is going to be able to deal with that through materialism because it is materialism that failed him and will fail everyone else.
This world sucks, Christianity deals with this, because we live in a fallen world and our misery is what's supposed to bring us to God. When humanity fails us all that's left is God.
In this world we are governed by men, which makes us miserable, hence David appealing to the mercy of God rather than the mercy of men:
Quote:
David answered Gad, “I am deeply distressed. Please, let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for His mercies are great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men.” 2 Samuel 24:14
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
I think that is good and all, but why can't there be a "middle" neutral or third option between Heaven/good and Hell/evil?
Why is heaven not good enough for you? Heaven is about being in the company of God and having him act as our head. He is the architect of the universe therefor it's only through him as king that we're allowed to flower and flourish, as he is the truth personified. Heaven is the true country/world you're after, anything that's governed by humans will ultimately fail humans because we're not designed to act independently, everything that you can observe in nature functions and flowers through a hierarchy, even your body itself.
Twilightprincess wrote:
Nobody in the world hates me. I’m a reasonably likable person, though.
The world loves you because you remain useful to the world.
But one day you will become useless to the world and the world will hate you. As Christ said, the world loves its own for as long as its own remains useful to it, but one day that usefulness will run out, and so the truth is revealed.
In the end, the world will fail all of us. Which is why the bible often says
Quote:
The greater my wisdom, the greater my grief. To increase knowledge only increases sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
And
Quote:
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.Matthew 5:4
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