Rant. Opinions welcome

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Trigger warning: toxic family member.

OK: this is in the Haven because I feel like having a rant, feel free to disagree or join in and share similar experiences, I won't get triggered or angry

There's this person in my wife's family that I could never stand; she can't stand him either so we're fine. He's basically a histrionic despot with a foul temper who uses all the usual tricks to get people to put up with it: he plays nice or offers "help", various favours or money to people and once he gets his hooks in, there's nothing they can do to escape. He gossips, manipulates, gaslights and turns other family members against each other and managed to get himself a circle of enablers who don't let anybody get out of his toxic cloud: "he's family and he loves you", "you have to take him as he is", "he's too old to change", "that happened a long time ago" - the usual enabler BS. He just screams or emotionally blackmails the more sensitive ones into submission.

We've never seen him often, never asked or accepted anything from him and he's a bit afraid of me, so we always managed to keep out of it, despite numerous attempts of dragging us into various dramas, conflicts, side-taking etc. But we're close with one of his daughters who completely broke ties with him about 15 years ago and getting a glimpse into the kind of hell he put her and her siblings through didn't mellow my feelings for the old bastard one bit.

At one point I just told my wife that it makes me sick to witness his antics and bullying and how everybody pussy-foots around him and since she feels the same way, we (and our kids) stopped attending any type of gatherings where we might meet him - and believe me, they always turn into a circus, where he usually creates new strife (or digs out old one) amongst the others, that often takes months or years to heal. What particularly drives me up the wall are the screaming matches and public verbal abuse that's allegedly part of his "temper". I don't buy it: if you're capable of being civil and agreeable with people you need or want something from, but won't bother to do the same when you know you can get away with it, how can this qualify as "you CAN'T control your anger"?! He seems to be able to do it just fine when he actually has something to lose.

Now, probably due to quarantine boredom, various people started pestering my wife about the whole thing (along the lines "you'll feel so sorry for not seeing him if he dies", "he hasn't seen the kids in years" - I hate that crap) and she's majority annoyed with it. We won't budge on this, so that's not the issue, but I'm curious how others see the situation, do you think we're being unreasonable?




TLDR: My guiding principle with people who claim "they can't control their anger issues" is that if they're capable of doing it in front of their boss or let's say a policeman, then they are able to do the same for their "loved ones" but can't be bothered.

What do you guys think?

Bender, you made my day with this phrase

I totally agree with you and your wife. I have one relative like this, and have never missed her. Why would you miss someone like that? They destroy families, and chose to have nothing else to live for. Besides, they are the ones refusing to make a real relationship. Their whole lives are a regret they cover up with anger and abuse. People outside my family always gave my relative a lot of credibility, because they saw her "nice" side. It never occurs to outsiders that the people closest to these individuals might have something valid to say about their own experience. Forget that person. Toxic people like that demand all the credibility, no matter their behavior, and give other people none.

It's just really genuinely nice that somebody gets where I come from on these excuses too. People are blind to manipulative controlling behaviour on purpose.

You could be describing mother-in-law, or her sister for that matter: every family event is just a battleground for the toxic manipulative nonsense they use in an endless psychological war against each other.
Luckily for us, although having nothing to do with them isn’t an option, the entire family is wise to what occurs and refuses to play their game.

If we could cut them totally from our life we would: I thoroughly approve of your stance regarding your problem relative, and see nothing wrong in keeping your & your wife’s lives free of unnecessary third-party BS.

I'm saving that one ^ for Leap Frog, thank you!

Bender, you don't need to explain or apologise for your rejection of this dude. Stay clear, stay strong, and only allow positive energy to surround your family. You all deserve better than to be gaslit. He's clearly manipulative and will attempt to pull strings whether you ignore him or not, so .... ignore him. You'll have peace of mind and be a good role model for your children as they enter relationship age and start to date. No one needs that sort of tripe in their lives whether it's from a partner, an elder, or a family member who should know better. And yes, he does know better. They always do.

Cheers, if you've met one of them, you'll recognise the behaviour instantly!



I have no doubt that if outsiders could get a glimpse into the intimate lives of some of those they like or respect, they'd look at such things and still refuse to believe it; there lies the power of such destructive characters.

Karamazov, you're incredibly lucky to have family that refuses to participate, that's very rare (and wise)! Most people just get sucked in against their better judgement if someone knows what buttons to push.

Isabella, sure, as I said neither of us has any intention of backing on this. My wife is a very calm and patient person who gets mad once in 10 years or so, but if anybody else is going to try the emotional blackmail BS again, I'm pretty sure she'll lose it and tell people some hard truths they won't forget any time soon. Who knows, maybe it would do them some good

I imagine you've learned the hard way too.

Yes, enablers often have something to gain out of it too, even if it's just "power by proxy" or maintaining their own delusions. It makes for a very sad spectacle how they will further victimise and prevent the healing of those who are actually wronged.

Last edited by BenderRodriguez on 15 May 2020, 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Now, this made my day

Your relative sounds much like my father and sister. I am all in favour of detaching from toxic people, everyone has the right to keep a "clean" environment. Well done Bender.

Hugs, Teach, I'm sorry you had to deal with it from really close family

I don't often mention it, but I completely cut out my "biological" family decades ago and never allowed them near my children. As much as it pains me to say (since I have real achievements I'm proud of) it was the second-best decision of my life. You're amongst friends here.

"Histrionic despotism". Sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder. Not that I am an expert, just that from my understanding of it that's pretty much the nub of the disorder.

I knew some people will relate to this, but I am a bit surprised nobody defends the "can't control temper" side of things, as it's something I hear so often from people.

I was about to post my own rant about this in the rant thread when I seen your thread...

If I was to guess why people say "they cant control their temper" i would guess its avoidance.
These histronic despots love the shitstorm they can create, they're skilled at it, they believe they are like a magical maestro and everyone else reaffirms that by never stepping out of line, for fear that they will be selected as cannon fodder.

People who are unavoidably involved with them will avoid dealing with the reality of their behaviour as it is easier and the most realistic option if they believe that they are stuck with that person.
Other family members trying to get you back into the fold is another game started by the troublesome family member, they roll the balls, someone else fires them.
Like an attempt to extend their control all the way into your home.
"Oh Mr&Mrs Bender are so lovely, remember when we were kids and Mrs B and I were best buddies" Dishing out plenty of feel goods with the delivery.
Some good soul or desperate lackey becomes the messenger.
Wee extra rant... bloody narcissists, are they really needed, I mean if they all just disappeared I reckon the world will continue just fine without them.

Hold fast Bender, you're doing the right thing, the second you play their game, you have lost.

My mother used to defend my fathers' abuse and violence ( he could control it depending on who was present) by saying he was stressed, he didn't mean it, even as a small child I lost my trust in her for that and her inability to defend me or herself. He would say the foulest things to her upon waking, and she would continue making his breakfast. I have since then come to believe that all bullies are cowards and my father was no exception, but he was trapped inside himself and nobody ever pushed him into a corner and confronted him, that would perhaps have forced him to change his ways. My father would treat my mother like a queen in public and play Mr Charming, a real Jekyll and Hyde.

I have to say that though I left home at seventeen the emotional trauma and problems with attachment, plus being paralysed during an argument and unable to respond, in essence, the CPTSD, will always be present.
I made my peace with my father before he died, retaining resentment and anger would only poison my life now, forgiveness and distancing from those who have treated me badly seems a much healthier option. I feel that I have been "programmed" defectively, I don't think the damage of a neglected and abused childhood can be easily undone and I married a man who is actually worse than my father and stuck with him for 28 years, but I understand now through no fault of my own. I am happier now than I have ever been because I live alone, bond with people for a while and then retreat to my haven of solitude.

Last edited by Teach51 on 16 May 2020, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.