Women falling for abusive partners

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Before the pitchforks and Lynch mobs come for me know that I do not say this as an embittered incel mad that women rejected him, but rather as a brother, nephew and cousin of many many women who have been abused, beaten, tortured, raped, etc. by scummy sleazy men who any moderately intelligent person could have seen a mile away but which all the women victims from these dirtbag men delusionally and naively thought were good men against all common sense and reason. Today I found out that my aunt's husband tried to kill her and put a gun to her head, and after the initial rage and anger for vengeance began to wear off part off almost became resigned to the reality that women - especially young ones - don't have the sagacity nor the acumen nor the incisiveness to appraise men and fall in love with good men; the incident I found out with my aunt wasn't the 1st, but the worst of a long long list of egregious abuse cases that has destroyed my family and made the women in my immediate and extended family all broken, depressed and even cynical, which has robbed them all of the happiness and joy they had before their spouses messed them up. My own mother's 1st husband was an abusive, violent, crazy thug who tried to kill her when I was a kid and threatened us with guns, and when I questioned my mom why she ever married a psycho like that she replied in the usual nonchalant way "he seemed like a good person, he was charming and exciting.....". This same refrain I've heard millions and millions and millions of times from the hundreds of women in my family - cousins, aunts, extended cousins, 6 sisters, my own mom - that I've become more and more cynical of women making choices regarding love and honestly feel like most women even want to be abused. Sorry if that hurts but I'm done sugarcoating it.

A good chunk of my life was robbed from me because the women, all of them no exception, in my clan are dimwits when it comes to appraising men and finding good husbands; in some cases like my mother and sisters the abuse they faced from sleazy men made them cold and made them hard to get along with because of the trauma and scars from their abuse; my cousins and aunts ended up dragging me and my family through the mud as we had to constantly intervene and fight battles to extricate vulnerable women from abusers, only for these same victims to go back to their abusers and blame us for helping them!! I've even had cousins and aunts cut me off from their lives for protecting them against their abusers, as if these women were so infected with Stockholm syndrome they began to associate the men abusing them as their heroes and the men and women protecting them as their enemies. It's absurd and as much as I try to not come off as a misogynist it's hard to think highly of people who have so low self worth they'd let a clear tyrant ride them like a donkey and attack those who want to help them.

After years and years of growing up with the crux of my life on the backdrop of women family members dealing with obvious jerk men I chalked all of this up to Arab men being pigs, since I come from a Middle Eastern family, and that maybe women in other cultures are smarter. After doing a little bit of reading online and even here on WP, the women outside of my culture are honestly not much smarter and reading their posts and stories of abuse I felt like screaming at the screen at how dumb some of these women were to fall for obvious abusers, and even worse for the women who admitted that their S/O was abusive for a long time but they still held out hope that he would change. Spending hours upon hours upon hours reading, watching, perusing the same tragic story of women not only falling in love, but staying in love with clearly toxic men has made me extrapolate all of this not to arab women, but women in general just being too - excuse my language - stupid to see a spade as a spade and make the right decisions when it comes to love.

Clearly not all women are like that and obviously there are plethoras of happy women who married good men and don't fall under these abuse cases, but we can't ignore the elephant in the room of how many women are embroiled in abusive relationships with con men a 5th grader could spot from a mile away, and who for God knows what reason stay in these relationships for years and only leave after the worst abuse possible is suffered, then in hindsight they realize how dumb they were to stay in relationships with men who would be easily diagnosed as sociopaths by any competent psychologist. Before even writing this post I consulted the women in my family who were abused and matured enough to realize how dumb their choices were and they admitted honestly that they agreed with everything I had written so far and they even told me some of the things I wrote right now.

I again apologize if this sounds harsh, cold and unempathetic to the plight of women who experience this, but when you have to constantly fight battles for people who look at you as the bad guy for doing nothing more than telling my family members who were being abused and some even flat out tortured to grow some backbone and leave this man, then you'll understand my frustration. What's even worse is the fact that some of the abusers my sisters married I actually knew very very palpably that the men they're seeking for marriage are monsters and warned my sisters to stay as far away from these men as possible. What was the response from my sisters? They called me mean, a jerk, told me I don't care about them and that if I loved my sisters I would support their love choices and bla bla bla. When lo and behold my predictions that the men they married were actually narcissistic and abusive magically came to true I was decent enough to not even rub it in their faces and tried to help them, providing support and money and protection, and do you know what happened next? I got hostility for stipulating that they had to leave their husbands when their husbands literally brutalized them so bad they ended up in mental, you heard that 1st word correctly, my sisters were placed in MENTAL hospital temporarily from the trauma. There was no salvaging these relationships and I only suggested what any sane person would suggest seeing their sisters getting beaten left and right, and that is to leave the person. As reward for my support I was slandered and insulted and yelled at.

I dont want to make this too long but ill end by saying that I've reached the point in life, at a young age mind you (I'm only 23) where as much as I want to empathize and feel bad for women who get abused I honestly stopped caring if a women decides to stay in bad relationships when its obviously not working and was never going to work. Husbands and wives fight, but the moment someone throws fists or even threatens to throw fists that guy isn't worth staying with and if you think you should stay with said guy dont blame anybody but yourself if 10 years later you have PTSD from abuse and wish you left before it was too late.

Last edited by magz on 31 Aug 2020, 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.: Changed title to non-offensive form

I doubt that you will get a positive response from women who aren't gullible, and who do know what's best for them.

Relationships are complex. There are times when people just can't "get out of them." If they do "get out of them," they might be out in the street with no home.

I wrote this post after finding out my aunt's husband tried to kill her. My friend just died a few days ago. Once I calm down and relax a little, maybe in a few hours when I'm more level headed and my temper has calmed ill change my post and write something a lot more nuanced. But until then this post remains my official rant until I can gain some clarity and write a more objective post.

And btw what you're saying about not being able to get out of a relationship because then they'll have no home may apply to American whites who dont live in extended tight knit family structures, but in my Middle Eastern family I literally have uncles who were willing to provide free and large homes to my aunts if they chose to leave their abusive husband. Do you know what they said? Big fat no. In Middle Eastern culture tight knit family networks provide support and are willing to pay for all kinds of support and shelter, meaning the issue of not having a home was never an issue in my family.

Although to be fair you make a good point. Not all women have these large family structures willing to provide support and if they leave they may really end up being homeless. I never thought of it that way.

I guess then part of me was overgeneralizing and hasty in my conclusions. Right now I'm tired and angry so I'm going to give myself a few hours to calm down, and hopefully when I'm better rested and more calm ill edit my post and make it less a rant and more objective.

Last edited by salad on 07 Jan 2020, 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm sorry about all that's transpired recently.

I can understand somebody being upset, and "not thinking clearly." It's happened to me. I've said and done not-so-smart things when I've been upset.

In truth, though, I probably would just write it out in private, rather than in public.

You seem like an okay guy with a lot on his mind.

I would apply this to some women, but not as many of them as your post might suggest.

I think it's safe to say there are definitely people who no matter how obvious it is, they don't get the obvious. Even if the obvious beats them up. I think it's some kind of mental illness. It sounds like your family are too accepting of abuse and it's a learned thing.

I agree with kraftie that you seem like an OK guy, who has been through a lot. You might get a better response in The Haven.

You're obviously in a lot of pain and I understand on both accounts what you're struggling with from personal experience. It might be better though to post this kind of thing in the Haven.

It's a real tragedy to be born in a deeply toxic family, it's something that robs children of the basic right to feel loved and safe and often turns them into angry, disappointed and emotionally crippled young adults. I used to be one too, although I had an equally dark view of both men and women. It would be a lot easier if situations like you describe would be caused by mere stupidity, the reality is much more complex and sad though. It's also not unusual for people who have been abused to blame other victims, as an extension of their own shame and guilt.

I'd rather not dwell on this, but allow me some advice as someone who walked in very similar shoes: if your family is still toxic for you, get away from them, at least for a while. Don't allow them anymore to drag or guilt-trip you into their... complicated lives. Try thinking about yourself and how to get yourself out of your current situation and stop thinking about who's to blame and for what. I know it's hard and I feel your despair, but it's the only way you can still save yourself and have a chance of a better future.

Some years ago I took a long break from here because my best friend (for decades) killed themselves. I still feel the pain, although it became more bearable now, it just left a hole that cannot be filled. Take care of yourself, man, really try to show yourself some kindness since nobody else seems to have done it and good luck. All these things will look different years from now, right now you really need to put it in the back of your mind and take better care of yourself, some of us really never had anybody else to do it.

I give you credit.

At least you're not going down the rabbit hole, to where you think you're right, and everybody else is wrong.

You're doing pretty good right now.

People stay in bad situations or relationships for a variety of reasons. The cycle of abuse creates this pattern in which things are bad but then the abuser apologizes and acts like a saint before initiating abuse yet again. Maybe the “good times” make the victim still love the abuser and it may keep alive the hope that things will stay better.

It’s further complicated when children, a difficult upbringing that upheld or condoned abusive patterns, mental health concerns, or financial problems are involved. Sometimes people can internalize guilt and can think that they are to blame for the abuser’s bad behavior. This is often accomplished through gaslighting. They can develop thoughts of hopelessness and worthlessness, especially when there’s depression or PTSD.

The key is to not blame the victims but to look at the overall context.

I am really sorry that you are in so much pain OP.

Women who are raised with a tyrannical, abusive father are drawn to these behavioural patterns.
The women are not at fault. Our nature is to nurture, forgive, and many like me who were raised with violent fathers have no idea when they are being abused. I lack the necessary abuse detecting "radar."

I . The child is father of the man. This is not a matter of choice, we get born into particular families and our emotional health is either nurtured or irreparably damaged in our formative years.

It's good that you care so much about the women in your life, changes are made by taking small steps, try to understand these women, and be a better man than the abusive men you know.
In my country which has a large arab population, honour killings in the family are daily occurrences in their community. It is a patriarchal society and will not change overnight. The women are slowly rising up and opposing the oppression, becoming financially independent and acquiring an education. The internet opens them up to other societies and cultures, and they want equality.

Last edited by Teach51 on 07 Jan 2020, 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Some women not all love them some bad boys and if a good guy likes them they try to find every reason in the world not to talk to the good guy.

I remember living next to a women in a apartment complex she was prego with the guys baby and he would pick her up throw her against the wall. He chased her around the parking lot with a knife which got the police called he was locked up a couple of days and she got him out if jail and let him move back in.

When our lady neighbor asked her why she stays with him she said He may hit me and he may cheat on me but he looks good.

[MOD]

I've decided to take no official action against the OP at this time, but, here at WP, we do NOT welcome mass negative generalizations aimed at large groups of people, no matter how "angry" or "upset" one might be at the time.

It would be no different if I posted, "After seeing so many men abusing their wives and girlfriends, I feel that men are inherently cruel and violent, and unable to safely be a part of a family."

This topic is locked pending further moderation.

[/MOD]

[MOD]After reconsideration, I interpret the opening post mainly as an expression of painful personal experiences.
The Haven will be a more suitable place for it, so I move and unlock it.[/MOD]
Personally: multi-generational patterns of abuse are something really hard to escape

Both of my ex's sucked. I left both relationships. I wasn't going to stay and expect my men to change.

While I can understand sometimes why women don't leave their abusers, I can't understand why they would go back to them after they had gotten away or why they don't just leave them even though their man wouldn't care if they left them. I can't relate to women fearing men in general and think they are going to just kill them. To me that seems to be misandry there.

My only concern about leaving my ex was that he would kill himself because he had talked about how suicidal he was because of his ex.

OK...I admit I did not read your whole posts, maybe I can look at that further later. But from what I gather you have been in the prescence of sexist women. Like for sure I disagree with what your topic says, but I also figure I kind of get where you come from...like that is what your older relatives said. And well even some older people still enforce(or try to) those kind of ideas.

But yeah its just I have had some experiences in my life and one of the bravest coolest person I Know, got assualted when she was a kid. And well she came out to it by telling my cousin who than brought it to the attention of her mom who of course had to tell my mom(not criticizing that like it had to be confronted) and for all the f*cking turmoil that piece of s**t caused, he only got six years. And guess what he did when he got out, he continued to assualt children so To get evidence against him they had to come back to our family and rehash all that stuff granted it was to finallly put him away for a very long time according to the detective guy. But still none of us wanted to go through the ordeal again...but we had to give some statements and what not because for sure we feel strongly he should not be let out to hurt more people. So Yeah IDk what his renewed sentence is but for sure if that guy gets let out he will for sure ssexually assualt children in any situation he thinks he can get away with it.

But I guess the point is, it was women and girls in my family who dealt with this the best they could...So ok there are some women in abusive situations who wont recognize it, but certainly seems wrong to suggest just in general women don't know what is good for them becasue some women choose to stay with abuse(but even then it can be more complicated, they can by just too afraid to leave, I think my first instinct would be to leave but I also haven't been abused in a relationship so I can't exactly accuratly put on their shoes and understand their experience so I feel I should do my best to reserve judgement for things like that. LIke maybe the woman shold have could have done this or that, but extreme abuse can really harm a person like they might not see all the options to get out, so you can't just generalize that its down to women not knowing what is good for them...there is just so much more to abuse situations than oh the woman 'didn't call the cops so ovbviously she wanted it". I guess it is one of those I can kind of see where you are coming from but...I think its too far to just declare its as simple as women not knowing what is best for them.

I mean if women didn't know best for them, than why did that girl realize something inappropriate was happening and tell someone,like its just no good to generalize in that way.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 30 Aug 2020, 5:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

Abuse victims (all genders) get used to abuse and see it as a normal relationship rather than for what it is.

It's really sad and hard to get them out of it.

These relationships are like cults and that's why from the outside it looks so obvious but from the inside it isn't and the more you push, the more they cling to the abuser. They're being brainwashed.

This is a really tough pattern to break esp since it often starts in childhood.

It's not the victim's fault but becuase they look so foolish for doing this, it does look that way.

I know I'm prone to it myself which is why I avoid relationships. My cousins (both cis het women) aren't prone to it and I envy their ability to root out the good men from the bad.

For me, it started with paedophilia when I was a kid. Paedo 'relationships' normalise the idea that one person leads the relationship, one person is the abuser, one person 'punishes' the victim, but it's 'all right' cos you get groomed to think you're special for being the victim and showered with the exact gifts you would want.

Abusive relationships between adults work in a similar way - check out the cycle of abuse.

That aunt right now will likely be being told 'it will never happen again, but you shouldn't have pushed me, look here's some gifts, you know you're my special girl right? They don't understand our love' That is the dangerous part as much as the abuse is - that is the brainwashing part of the cycle.

It's not all women. It's not all men. It's more about abuser vs abused. And I can see how in a specific family/set of families, that would look like all women and all men tbh. If it became normalised to fit that pattern, like you seem to have noticed. And honestly? When it comes to cis people, men tend to be a lot taller and more muscular than women so of course physical abuse happens more often (statistically) that way around in cis hetero relationships. Doesn't mean cis het men can't be physically abused by their partners, though. Because the brainwashing part, and the 'are you really upset cos you got hit by a girl?' some of these female abusers use.