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SpottedMushroom wrote:
First, I really appreciate your thoughtful and thorough response, so thank you. I will look into the links you've provided. To answer your questions...
How did they manifest these high expectations? Mostly just by pressuring you to get good grades, make lots of friends, etc.?
I grew up living alone with my narcissistic mother. She had high demands for how I handled myself, and the things I accomplished. Anything that could reflect her as a parent. In school it was expected I get grades equal to or greater than the previous semester. I wasn't allowed to go anywhere alone except school, or talk to people outside of it, or have friends. I knew since I was very small that I would be going to college because that's what I was told. I was yelled at constantly and told how lazy or selfish I was. I can't really explain what's it's like to grow up with a person like that. Excluding authority, she was not present. I went to school, struggled to do the assigments, and barely got sleep. She went to work, took out her negative feelings on me, and we both did many chores. She resented me more and more the older I got because she hated that she was expected to care for me. At 16 she insisted I get a job so I could pay rent. Because of my circumstances, I already wanted that anyway. I was taught how bad it was to rely on others and I wanted to stop doing that as soon as possible. I didn't know at the time how unrealistic an expectation that was.
I just didn't have the time. I spent hours on homework every day, and I often failed to finish group projects. I just needed so much more time to research and organize, but it wasn't going to happen. The other hard part was I didn't get along with my peers or the adults. When I asked for help, teachers became angry with me and told me to sit back down, that I wasn't paying attention.
No. We had expectations, but no celebrations. When I didn't add up to an expectation, not only did I fail, but I lacked respect for my mother, and doing so reflected that I didn't love her, or whatever other nonsense she pushed on me at the time.
She did not know or care about the things I enjoyed. Currently, I live with my father, and he has little to no interest.
We had a couple small wooded areas in our neighborhood growing up. I spent most my free time there, or in my room reading. The woods were safe because there weren't people and it was quiet. I really liked exploring wildlife as a kid, and climbing trees. As a teen, I switched to rollerblading.
I do, but for some reason these didn't really occur to me until adulthood. As a child, I didn't notice it as much.
Oh my upbringing definitely affects many things, you're right. My mother was not a warm person, to put lightly. But I still struggle even though I haven't seen her in a decade.
My life has been very isolating. I never got along with people in school. When I worked, I couldn't maintain the jobs because I couldn't meet their expectations. People don't care if you do your best, not really. They just want results. I couldn't provide that. I always wanted to be useful, because I knew people didn't like me. I went to college and that was a nightmare. Medical providers have mistreated and/manipulated me. I worked with Voc Rehab for a couple years and they treated me badly too. Not really Voc Rehab but the providers that they sent me to. I know this is getting vague but there's just so much I don't exactly know how to get into it all. It's overwhelming.
I do know now that a person's worth is not in how productive they are or what they are capable of doing. It's just been hard to unlearn, and my father doesn't support the idea at all. He always treated me well, but when he finally understood my diagnosis, he became distant.
I am very grateful for my therapist. I met him at the end of 2017 and he has been an anchor for me since then. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem there's much he can do about the intensity of my emotions. That's not his fault at all. It's just how my brain works, I think.
A support group would be wonderful! I haven't been able to find any in my area. I don't think we have them here. My case manager has looked too.
I am familiar with Autism Society. They are one of the providers I worked with from Voc Rehab.
Thank you very much for all your insight and general interest in my question. There is a warmth and understanding in your writing that is very comforting.
Mona Pereth wrote:
SpottedMushroom wrote:
Here is a quick background: My parents' expectations of me were very high as a child.
How did they manifest these high expectations? Mostly just by pressuring you to get good grades, make lots of friends, etc.?
I grew up living alone with my narcissistic mother. She had high demands for how I handled myself, and the things I accomplished. Anything that could reflect her as a parent. In school it was expected I get grades equal to or greater than the previous semester. I wasn't allowed to go anywhere alone except school, or talk to people outside of it, or have friends. I knew since I was very small that I would be going to college because that's what I was told. I was yelled at constantly and told how lazy or selfish I was. I can't really explain what's it's like to grow up with a person like that. Excluding authority, she was not present. I went to school, struggled to do the assigments, and barely got sleep. She went to work, took out her negative feelings on me, and we both did many chores. She resented me more and more the older I got because she hated that she was expected to care for me. At 16 she insisted I get a job so I could pay rent. Because of my circumstances, I already wanted that anyway. I was taught how bad it was to rely on others and I wanted to stop doing that as soon as possible. I didn't know at the time how unrealistic an expectation that was.
Mona Pereth wrote:
What was your main source of academic difficulty? What were the most difficult things for you to do?
I just didn't have the time. I spent hours on homework every day, and I often failed to finish group projects. I just needed so much more time to research and organize, but it wasn't going to happen. The other hard part was I didn't get along with my peers or the adults. When I asked for help, teachers became angry with me and told me to sit back down, that I wasn't paying attention.
Mona Pereth wrote:
Did your parents make any attempt to make learning fun for you, e.g. by leveraging your natural interests, whatever those might have been? Or did they just punish you for getting bad grades?
No. We had expectations, but no celebrations. When I didn't add up to an expectation, not only did I fail, but I lacked respect for my mother, and doing so reflected that I didn't love her, or whatever other nonsense she pushed on me at the time.
Mona Pereth wrote:
What were your parents' attitudes and behavior toward the things that you liked doing, whatever those things might have been?
She did not know or care about the things I enjoyed. Currently, I live with my father, and he has little to no interest.
Mona Pereth wrote:
What kinds of things, if any, did you enjoy doing, when you were a kid?
We had a couple small wooded areas in our neighborhood growing up. I spent most my free time there, or in my room reading. The woods were safe because there weren't people and it was quiet. I really liked exploring wildlife as a kid, and climbing trees. As a teen, I switched to rollerblading.
Mona Pereth wrote:
Do you have sensory issues? Did your parents force you to put up with sensory stimuli that you couldn't stand, but that are no big deal for NT's?
I do, but for some reason these didn't really occur to me until adulthood. As a child, I didn't notice it as much.
Mona Pereth wrote:
My reason for asking these questions is that I'm trying to get a feel for the extent to which your problems were caused just by your autism per se, vs. the extent to which your problems may have been made worse by your circumstances and upbringing.
Oh my upbringing definitely affects many things, you're right. My mother was not a warm person, to put lightly. But I still struggle even though I haven't seen her in a decade.
Mona Pereth wrote:
I would also be interested to hear anything else you care to share with us about what your life has been like overall.
My life has been very isolating. I never got along with people in school. When I worked, I couldn't maintain the jobs because I couldn't meet their expectations. People don't care if you do your best, not really. They just want results. I couldn't provide that. I always wanted to be useful, because I knew people didn't like me. I went to college and that was a nightmare. Medical providers have mistreated and/manipulated me. I worked with Voc Rehab for a couple years and they treated me badly too. Not really Voc Rehab but the providers that they sent me to. I know this is getting vague but there's just so much I don't exactly know how to get into it all. It's overwhelming.
I do know now that a person's worth is not in how productive they are or what they are capable of doing. It's just been hard to unlearn, and my father doesn't support the idea at all. He always treated me well, but when he finally understood my diagnosis, he became distant.
Mona Pereth wrote:
The right kind of psychotherapy and/or psychiatry can help with this, provided you can find a practitioner who is knowledgeable about ASD.
Again, the right kind of therapy and/or psychiatry can help. The big problem here is finding the right practitioner.
Also it can be very helpful to participate in an autistic adult peer support group.
Perhaps the Autism Society of Indiana can help you find both an appropriate therapist and a local support group? Or have you tried them already?
SpottedMushroom wrote:
or empathize better, be better understood, socialize....isn't it strange to say so?
Again, the right kind of therapy and/or psychiatry can help. The big problem here is finding the right practitioner.
Also it can be very helpful to participate in an autistic adult peer support group.
Perhaps the Autism Society of Indiana can help you find both an appropriate therapist and a local support group? Or have you tried them already?
I am very grateful for my therapist. I met him at the end of 2017 and he has been an anchor for me since then. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem there's much he can do about the intensity of my emotions. That's not his fault at all. It's just how my brain works, I think.
A support group would be wonderful! I haven't been able to find any in my area. I don't think we have them here. My case manager has looked too.
I am familiar with Autism Society. They are one of the providers I worked with from Voc Rehab.
Thank you very much for all your insight and general interest in my question. There is a warmth and understanding in your writing that is very comforting.
Reading all these things you're saying here made me tear up a bit. This doesn't happen often.
I think the main difference between you and me is that I was a bit luckier and, maybe more important, I'm farther ahead in that journey by now. The main reason why I ever even went after a psychiatric diagnosis (and even got "diagnosed" with schizophrenia at one point, because that was how messed up I was by stress and bad medication) was to get my parents off my back. Lucky for me, it worked. Because once there was authoritative opinion involved, they had to choose between believing I had a real impairment or believing their parenting had broken me. Otherwise they would probably still be complaining about my laziness and ungratefulness (my mother in particular). I did go through a period of pretty bad depression anyway. Recovering was a long process. Still ongoing in some ways, I guess.
This is where I am today though:
toadsnail wrote:
Sometimes I feel grateful that my parents are so clearly not supportive (even if it would be an overstatement to call them "abusive"). It makes my relationship with them very clear. There's no such thing (and no expectation of such thing) as "love" involved. It's just a matter of mutually beneficial scenarios.
toadsnail wrote:
I used to have anger issues. I think there were many specific reasons that conspired for it to be that way, but generally speaking I think it all boiled down to "I was tired. Chronically tired." I needed to stop having unreasonable expectations. I needed to stop being my own worst critic. And as cheesy as it may be, I needed to learn to appreciate all the little things in life instead.
Once I switched paths... things got worse. A lot worse.
But it was a new beginning. It set me free. And I wasn't "owed" anything anymore, just as much as I didn't owe anyone anything. It turns out life had been bad largely because of myself. And that's good. I don't think I could have known better until then, and I don't know that I could have done better either, but now I could, and now I can. That's what matters.
I'm still dismayed by all the unnecessary ignorance and hostility in the world, but I don't feel like I'm a victim of it anymore. I can be sad without being angry (I don't always succeed at it, but... it's possible now). I've learned to expect the worse, hope for the best, and do what I can with what I have. It takes time and determination to switch paths and go against the current, and it's not painless, but it's worth it.
Once I switched paths... things got worse. A lot worse.
But it was a new beginning. It set me free. And I wasn't "owed" anything anymore, just as much as I didn't owe anyone anything. It turns out life had been bad largely because of myself. And that's good. I don't think I could have known better until then, and I don't know that I could have done better either, but now I could, and now I can. That's what matters.I'm still dismayed by all the unnecessary ignorance and hostility in the world, but I don't feel like I'm a victim of it anymore. I can be sad without being angry (I don't always succeed at it, but... it's possible now). I've learned to expect the worse, hope for the best, and do what I can with what I have. It takes time and determination to switch paths and go against the current, and it's not painless, but it's worth it.
I want to respond with something helpful, but I'm not sure where to start. I'll post a song for now, for what it's worth. I hope you find it comforting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkiIPzG37vQ
Feel free to ask me questions anytime, here, elsewhere or over PM if you want. Or if you want to talk about anything I've already posted, also feel free. Just... no pressure.
Do it only if/when you feel like it.There is hope.
