A question of male existence

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I've got a question, its a little involved but its something that's really come home to me a lot and its one where if I don't find a solution now I guess I'll find it later - either way I know I'll find it.

I think about it, being a guy, being a man, knowing what's expected of me as a man. What our culture screams out for, clamors for, holds everyone accountable for. As a guy I know this is expected of me - I'm supposed to be potentially violent, I know that if someone comes at me its required of me to show that side and stand steady without even as much as a ripple. A little stupid thing just happened, nothing really came of it, but over some stupid mistake I had someone pretty much stomping around screaming, kicking s**t, and I was laughing to myself like "Jesus, just come over hear and break my jaw - common, PLEASE f' with me". It was an honest mistake, it wasn't anything major, its happened before and we've tried to find ways around it - I usually look out for things but still, I'm starting to realize that no one, no matter how good you are or what your intentions are, are above taking a good ass beating or getting f'd with, or if your a woman being made to cry over something like that. Its our culture, its what we are.

The other part of this, one of those things that really makes me question my right to be here. I have neurological problems, when I get overcharged I shake - like a leaf. Being that's the case, being I turn to a trembling pile of s**t pretty much anytime REAL drama comes up, should I still be alive? As a man? Sometimes when I get reminded of it, I know in our day in age its not all that realistic, but once in a while I wish someone would grab a knife and slit my throat - afterall if I'm that much of a pathetic piece of work, and I'm a guy, I probably shouldn't be breathing.

My thought, I need to get callous, I need to be violent, and I'm fine with that even being me getting my face busted up, ribs cracked, etc. Being 28 and having a professional job that could also mean that I'd lose it even if someone physically started it. On the other hand, in the face of this kind of conflict, the quality of my life doesn't matter, the things I destroy in the process don't matter, its a fundamental 'do I deserve to live?' question and what I find so ridiculous - people chase all kinds of dreams, aspire to be their best, the opposite sex also holds the other to increasingly insurmountable standards - whether that's the right to own, abuse, and throw away unless the other is stronger its hard to call it. Still, you have that on one end and the conflict I'm mentioning on the other. On one hand your supposed to be next to perfect in every way socially, on the other your supposed to throw back 10,000 years of progress and duke it out with people sometimes and really throw you life away, have it fall apart, and even if it doesn't come to fisticuffs the assertive actions taken burn bridges galore. When I think of both sides of this I just laugh my ass off, its a joke - how we overrate the quality of life vs. the value of life itself and how we treat it.

I'm just curious on how some of you have dealt with this one. I don't want to hear any of that liberal apologist crap of "That sounds like a bad situation, get out of it" - that's a lot worse IMO than just taking a licking or dishing one out if that time ever comes, or making things blow up between people. I'm still a man, I try to have honor, and if I can't live up to those standards - I kinda hope one day someone does, in a fit of rage, put me in the ground because there are some things I'm willing to live with, some I'm not, and me being some sort of limp-dicked coward with no spine, no balls, etc. just won't fly. As much as the women here also would probably have to admit to themselves, a guy like that really has absolutely no right to procreate either. What if a burglar broke in? What if a pedophile was after the kids? A guy who let an armed a***hole get away with their kids, if that actually happened, should really go kill himself - he's worth less than nothing and in Japan back in the day that's the kind of thing where a guy would be almost required to sit down with a dagger and a bowl of water, ram that dagger in his stomach, twist, and try to undo the complete disgrace of honor that he is.

Gosh, that sounds like a bad situa.... oops... sorry!

Hey, I'm a real-life "MANLY" poser!

I got picked on relentlessly during my school years. Just couldn't defend myself and I only got into three physical fights.
I got physically pushed around a fair amount too.

As an adult, I learned to put on a good scary face so others would leave me alone... except for the guys who were definitely more unbalanced than I was.

I was able to workout and have 'some' muscle... not rippling abs and massive biceps, but enough to look like I could take care of myself.
Then I found other ways to present myself...
I joined the Army and became a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne. I found that after I was out, I could wear that experience on my sleeve for the whole world to see... "I AM A BIG BAD AIRBORNE PARATROOPER... BEWARE!"

Next, I went to work in the oilfields... let my hair grow out, grew a beard.
At that time, anyone who worked in the oilfields was thought to be tough! Grrrrrrr! I am a rough & tough Roughneck! BEWARE!

Then I acquired my Harley!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I am a terrifying BIKER! DON'T f**k WITH ME!
I learned that just by having a big beard, long hair... er... long GREASY hair, shaggy clothing along with the requisite leather jacket/boots/chaps/dark shades, I could get away with brow-beating the 'civilians'... up to the point where they started calling the cops.
If someone changed lanes and got too close to me, I could reach over and kick a dent in their car... I was BIG & BAD & MEAN!

I've owned numorous guns, talked s**t about everyone else's politics, jobs, homes, and pathetic foreign cars.... really strutted my stuff!

But I have to tell you....

I was no more a MAN then, than I am now.

All that posturing was insecurity... which is what most guys do to shore up this stupid, inane belief of what makes a MAN!

So, you can go on and on about how pathetic you are because you don't 'pose' as a man.. but in reality.. if you have a penis between your legs... if you have the correct chromosomes... YOU ARE A MAN.
I would even allow that a person who was born genetically female but felt their gender was actually masculine, could be a 'man' in the sense of gender identity. I know a few who are... two conduct their lives in peace without all the posturing I mentioned above... the other really plays up the stereotypical male image and it's sad but funny to watch sometimes.

You're taking a stereotype from Western society and using it to demean yourself... that's all.
I do hope you realize this someday and quit abusing yourself like this.
I know at your age I was doing all the stupid crap I mentioned above.
None of that got me anything worth having... seriously.
It never improved my life one iota.

You need to work on your self image from within... not by comparing yourself to some stereotype hyped up to be THE FINAL WORD on what a MAN really is.

But then.. you're a man.. you make your own decisions... hate yourself or not.

I'd rather you come to terms with this stuff and start enjoying life.

I've enjoyed your presence here so far and hope you don't go out and slash your own throat or have someone else do it for you... in the end.. this would be a waste of a man.

I used to try and be the manly man stereotype but I just couldnt pull it off because I have a baby face, im going to be 23 and people still mistake me for 16.

Luckily I grew out of that phase before I got that full arm sleeve tattoo I wanted haha.

Actually the reason I stopped trying to be mr fightclub was because women would always tell me how they didnt like immature guys like that. Girls want a cool headed guy who can protect them if need be not a 'RAWR me smash your face for looking at me funny" kind of guy... That's not adult behavior.

Yeah, that's good!

You seem to have a pretty good handle on it for being 23.
I can remember at that age almost every guy I was ever around had to display some sort of machismo!

I think it takes a lot more character, a lot more strength to be a genuine person rather than play up an image for others.

They make it out, that men must be breadwinners, making all this money and sturdy oaks who don't shed a tear. I think that's a load of bologna. I think and feel that each person is an individual, male or female. I think that everybody is successful, in their own right.

You have the right idea, no fence around me, jump in, the first one is free, but then it is my turn.

Why don't we smash foreheads till one of us drops?

They do change there tune quickly, they are trying to win by posing and bluff, and if it ain't free, it is not for them. Smile, circle to their right, and they soon start to get the idea you have a plan.

Management 101, life is a dog pack. Most of the pack will submit to a dirty look. Some to a growl, some to barred fangs, but that one who starts stalking, circling right and forcing the attacker to turn, and turn, soon is moved up in the social order. How many fights do you see? It is all posing, and no one beats me up with their mouth, or posture.

They have made a challange, if it is met in any way, now they can attack, and go to jail, or they lose social status. They made a bet and lost. Smiling is powerful, it totally discredits them. You do see the humor in their behavior.

Like you say, 28 and professional, all they can run is fear. You won, it is all they have left, and it can be quickly shut down. I have managed many people who were much larger than me. Their main concern is that I would treat them fairly. Part of challanges, and they can be suttle, is feeling out how you would react.

You are being the Superior Man, showing neither fear nor anger. They are actually acknowledging your position. That monster of a guy in the shop may just be checking, and he does not dare mention his real reason. Until he has some contact, then he might mention having a kid, and a little followup shows that the kid plays baseball, and he would like to get off next Thrusday at three, so he can go to the game. Move heaven and earth, take it upstairs, but get him to the game.

And they say we lack social skills. If you are talking about life in bars, it is the displeasure of those who have less education and no future, and talk is all they have, for they most likely have a parole officer, and are not supposed to be drinking. If they go to jail no one will bail them out and they will lose thier job.

These guys will be stuck where they are for life. They know it can get much worse. I have seen one fight in the last fifteen years, it was between two brothers, it lasted two blows. All the rest was talk. So smile, and accept the compliment.

As for the other sex, they watch too much TV. As the monk said in Inyashu, the secret to being desired by women is total indiferance. Make them make the first step. At your age I suddenly turned from dork to hot property, I did not change, just 28 to 30 is what women are looking for, professional, working, you are in trouble.

Accept that you may get hit, and smile. If worse comes to worse charge, get past the arms, put your head under their chin, and go to work on the mid section. Being in contact, you know where their head is. About all they can do is pat you on the back. If they use their hands to push you away, you have an open chin shot. I have ten tricks, I have used two in all my life.

I have used circling to the right about five times, nothing happened, and it ended. Three times I offered to butt heads, no takers.

It is the same in management. Ignore the threat, deal with the person. The big dogs like someone with backbone. Give them the idea you are being annoyed by headhunters. You could have another job tomorrow, or another girlfriend, but you are trying to make this one work.

Life is a bluff.

The way I feel about all that though; I can bluff my neighbors, I can bluff my roommate, I can bluff my parents, I can bluff all the women out there, I can also bluff my boss and coworkers, I can keep bluffing until I have no idea who the heck I am anymore. I really wish I could tell the right person to take this whole entire reality - not just this situation at hand but the entire whole of existence, here and now - to roll it up and shove it.

I guess you're saying you want bodily injuries.

That's nice. Go get some.

Also, I think you'll come to find that the more you pretend to be something, the more it becomes a part of you. Soon you won't be bluffing anymore... you'll be acting like you.

Not specifically, I would just really like to be a hell of a lot more shored up with my internal emotional reactions to things. I'm just saying that I feel more power in that sense if I own it, face it, and say "sure, bring it" even if that results in me just getting hit rather than doing the hitting - things also get almost surreal at that moment, like your inward grip is really being put to the test in ways that it usually isn't, part of me really thinks that the lack of that sort of real drama in my life has been part of what keeps me behind other people in that sense.



Not really wanting to be a macho man or a cheesedick, I just want to feel more solid inwardly and get my nervous system the f out of the way. I could throw down, that I'm not worried about, just like I'm not worried about losing. For me its 'is the situation controlling me or am I still owning and controlling myself'? My personal standards for self is I'm not shook, I'm not a coward, and having my nervous system pound me into that position makes me sick. There are certain things that make me happy, certain things never will.

Being a try-hard of some kind, no matter how many external kudos I could get, just doesn't do anything for me; there's no internal gratification in it.

Ah, I think I am getting it.

Perhaps my post was heading way off base.

You want to stand your ground and be taken seriously about it?

You want control of your 'fight or flight' mechanism?

All I can say is train yourself.
You live in Pheonix.. I seem to recall different avenues for training.
Currently there is a place called Valhalla.
It's pretty much firearms oriented.
I do believe they have other training though.

You should check into this or perhaps a martial art like the Asian arts or even boxing.

What I see you getting from all this is not some skill to beat your opponent to a pulp with,
it's more about putting yourself into situations where you have to think fast and deal with someone in your face even if it's all just training.
You will learn about pressure and your reaction to it.
You will learn about having things happen to you that seem to be out of your control.

Experience is the only way to gain this control over your 'emotions'.
I got my experience through the Army, working on the streets driving ambulances, and from other jobs I've had.

Am I getting closer to what you are talking about?

Actually my first post was a little bit abstract and general, reflecting on wanting control of that but also how annoyed I am with the realities of what it is, in our culture to be a guy.

One thing is for certain though, I have kinda wanted to buy a nice handgun for a while. I've fired them off at a range once or twice before and they are pretty fun. Maybe and H&K might be a good route .

I favor my glock30 and my kimber 1911

I have been training with firearms for a long time with some breaks every now-and-then.
While some folks see it as just training to shoot someone, it can have broader applications.. given the right person and the right frame of mind.

If you could go to a good school, you might find that it would help you in regards to better understanding and gaining more control over your fight-or-flight system.

There are many aspects to using firearms...
-Learning to responsibly handle a mechanical device that can be used to inflict injury or cause death.
-Dealing with the noise, the recoil, and the smell while trying to shoot accurately and quickly.
-Having the psychological pressure of an instructor watching your actions and in some instances attempting to increase the amount of stress you are under.

A good class will allow you to safely deal with all of these.
It will also provide you with good information and instruction in the legal and moral issues surrounding violence between people.

There are classes and instructors who just take you out and show you how to shoot... but I prefer learning more of the information I mention above.

After all that, you don't need to ever handle a firearm again.
The training you receive carries over into other aspects of you life.. .or at least that's what has happened to me.

I have only dabbled in the martial arts of physical contact.
But from what I learned and what others have told me, this is also a good way to develop an understanding and better control of your fight-or-flight system.

Could always buy one of those tasers like the police carry, they have a 15 foot range on em.

The cool thing about them is that you can legally carry them on you without a permit (depending on state that is.)

Knowing you have that on you would probably give you a boost in confidence so that your not so inclined to want to flee.

Nah, don't think I'd go that route. I'm not concerned about fleeing and that's something that I really don't think a guy should use unless he's really at a last resort with some guy who has a gun, knife, etc.. If someone wants to give an ass beating they can give me an ass beating, I'm not afraid of it. What bugs me I think is not being emotionally ready for action when the stupid stuff happens that can catch me off guard. If it comes to a fight with someone and its a situation where they've got me pissed, especially when I see it in their eyes that they have every intention of being my worst nightmare, I'll get an evil grin on my face and its on.

You need some help with this. The initiating step is to lay off those pills you're on. Throw 'em in the waste bin.

If you lose control of yourself in a fight, it could easily cost you a victory. Then again, there are special cases, but I don't see you as someone fitting in that special case. Learn to center the mind, first and foremost. If you center the mind, then your spirit and body will follow suit without effort.

And if you're so weak that you can't even do that, then buy a handgun. Maybe you'll end up in prison someday, monitoring your emotional reactions to the sexual advances of other men. You'd be the prison's little freak if you pasted on an "evil grin" while getting Bubba's sausage up your ass.

I have had weapons permits for a while now and I can tell you that it is more of a burden than a 'boost in confidence', if you take the responsibility of what you're doing in the right way.

We're talking about carrying a different form of insurance.
One that, if used, causes serious issues impacting not just you, not just your attacker, but many other people as well.

It really is a burden to bear... carrying a concealed, loaded gun around with you.
It is a weapon of last resort, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I need to accept a beating before pulling my firearm out for defense.
The fact is, you can sustain serious bodily injury and even death from a good beating.
There is no way to tell when the next blow is going to do this to you.
Avoidance is the key to not getting into a physical altercation... mindind one's drinking habits is another... staying out of places you feel might lead to confrontations is another, and so on.

I carry for specific reasons and I am limited as to where I can carry. Any firearm I do not have in my possession needs to be safely locked away.
I see I'm getting way off topic here, but I did want to caution folks that carrying a weapon is not about making yourself feel invincible or even 'stronger'... it's about adding another means of keeping yourself safe.

There are very few states where you can carry concealed without a permit, there are very few states where you can carry openly as in wearing a holster on your hip with a gun in it for the world to see.
There are reasons why concealed is a much better option than open-carry.

Back to the subject at hand...

Saying you're willing to stand there and tell the other person to 'bring it on' is all nice and brave sounding, but in the end you need to make sure any beating and damage to your body you receive is worth whatever issue you were fighting for.

I have learned not to succumb to name-calling, teasing, and other harrassment simply because most times that other person was not someon I associated with normally. I could take a little bruising to my ego so I wouldn't have to engage someone in physical combat.
I do jump in people's faces when I am angry at their behavior and it is what I would consider a viable threat to my or other people's safety.

But I have walked away from, or talked myself out of many more confrontations than I have fought in.

Today, most of those events are long gone from my memory.
Most of those people I faced are long gone from my life.
I'm much better off having dealt with them in the manner I have rather than fight it out.
I can tell you from my experiences that it's MUCH better to have a slightly bruised ego which I have the power to fix, than to spend time in the emergency room for bodily injury and then in jail for public fighting.

Tech... I think you need to reassess your views on standing your ground and being tough.
If you work out these scenarios in your mind, then find a way to stress yourself in training to learn how to control your body/mind, you will be much better off than to continue chasing whatever it is you're chasing here.

Prior experiences are yours to learn by.
Use them in that manner.
The way you seem to be using them here is to run yourself down and set yourself up for failure.

I applaud you trying to work this stuff out, and wishing to be more solid in confrontations.
But there are better ways to think about it than to believe you need to take a beating.

I'm serious.. and I know what I am talking about.
Through my Biker years (well before the Harley Yuppie Davidson craze of the present... I'm talking real bikers), my military experiences, my time as a doorman/bouncer in clubs out in West Texas, and on the street, I have gained an appreciation for self-preservation over confrontation.

I do hope you can find a good way to learn more about your stress-induced fears or inactions and train yourself to be better with all that.