I need help.

Post Reply New Topic

I posted this on another thread in response to worrying. But it belongs here because I need help. I have always seemed like a strong one around here---but I am right now feeling very low and on the verge of depression.

Right now I need help with worrying.

After 44 years of life knowing I am different from others, I was relieved to be diagnosed with Asperger's this past November. I am proud of this fact. I do not see Asperger's/autism as anything degrading. It is a unique quality that I enjoy having.

But, I can never leave anything alone. I keep researching and researching until I get unsure of myself---then I get in a panic/anxiety and worry state. It was like that with most of my tattoos. I had to keep looking at them until I found something wrong with them that needed fixed. I often feel like everyone else's tattoos are better than mine. Anyway, that is straying off topic a bit. (I might add, that tattoos seem to be an attention getter. I like being unique, but at the same time I also feel some shyness about showing them. I have gotten better lately. But still, most people don't even know I have any. In my own personal thoughts, it gives me a sort of pleasure to think about showing them off, but to actually do it takes a little bravery.)

With my Asperger's, I keep reading about all the traits. Yes, I indeed qualify on both the DSM-IV and the Gillberg list---no problem. But then I worried a couple weeks ago because my digit ratio is around 0.987 rather than the more typical Asperger's ratio of 0.95-0.97. I measured and measured and measured. Worry, worry, worry. My fear was of not having Asperger's. Asperger's explains me---I like that. I bought the golf shirt which I enjoy wearing. Then, after reading posts about digit ratio, I dismissed the digit ratio from my worries.

I had previously done the same thing with giftedness being confused with Asperger's. To get to the bottom of this, I categorized all the traits I could find in research to compare the two as occuring seperately, and together. I got my IQ score from school and it was 111---high, but not intellectually gifted. I got over that worry.

Then, I clicked on a WrongPlanet post this past Friday---Narcissism and Asperger's being misidentified. Horror!! ! I wish I had never seen it. Had I read things about narcissism first, I would have swore I was narcissistic. But I am not a cold person. I care about others. I respect others. If someone tells me something, I have a tendency to believe it. That doesn't sound very narcissistic. But...I enjoy being unique. It some ways, it gives me a lot of pleasure to stand out in a crowd because of my uniqueness. This scares me now, because I don't want to be narcissistic---I want to be Asperger's.

Looking at charts between Asperger's and Narcissism, I seem to match more Asperger's traits. But, I do like feeling unique. But, I can say I feel a little awkward/embarassed when someone says something to me like, "Well, I saw your twin on this show the other night---he had Asperger's." Or, at church after I play the organ prelude and there is applause---it makes me feel good, but I also feel very awkward at acknowledging the congregation in thanks because it is so hard for me to display my emotions.

But I just cannot convince myself that I have Asperger's. This is my terrible worry right now and it has consumed my entire day as a teacher at my school. All I have done is research on the computer. My head is hurting, and my eyes are tired. I keep wanting to consume myself in my writing---but I can't for this worry of Narcissism. Please help me ...please.

glider18

When I feel dread at the thought of a certain fact being true, I mentally work through what is the worst that could come of it. So what's the worst that could happen if you WERE diagnosed with narcissism? It's not treatable by a pill. You might get some help out of counseling or therapy. Pretty much the same outcome as if you had AS, right? However, I think the very fact you're horrified by the fact you might be a narcissist means you AREN'T one, since obviously modesty and concern for others are important to you even if you aren't perfectly expressing those qualities at this time.

Not all people with AS have the finger length thing--apparently just a statistically significant number of them in some studies. Do you think the other people with AS in those studies whose index and ring fingers WEREN'T the same length were considered to be any less AS, even by the researchers themselves? Mightn't you fall into the same category as them, an AS person without a finger length anomaly?

You are obviously musically gifted, even if your IQ is "only" 11 points higher than normal. Giftedness isn't measured only in IQ, which you as a gifted educator must already know.

From what I've read, you don't display any traits such as grandiosity, being exploitatative, entitlement, arrogance, and you don't seek copious amounts of admiration. Other traits associated with narcissism, such as self-preoccupation, can be explained by AS.

It seems, especially going by the other preoccupations and checking behaviors you had in the past, the main issue you have right now is an obsessive compulsive one. That's the one that needs to be solved, so it would be prudent to find out how such thoughts and behaviors are effectively dealt with (e.g., techniques for managing the anxiety and compulsive checking).

Obsessive checking and its associated anxiety are usually triggered by an event that puts an idea or doubt in your mind. It's also more likely you'll be primed for such a trigger if you're more anxious or stressed in general, so that's another area to look at.

Thank you arielhawksquill and outlier. I feel a little better. I do appreciate your analysis. I can relate some other things I thought about on the way home from work a few minutes ago.

My wife and I went to a bed and breakfast this past weekend. I took along my WrongPlanet golf shirt that I have been wearing a lot of lately (my wife is getting tired of it I think). I wore it to the bed and breakfast on Friday evening, and she thought I was going to change into another shirt for dinner there. I thought about it, but I wanted to wear the WP shirt---and I did. I like feeling different. It helps me in society. But, at the same time this happened. The host/owner of the bed and breakfast looked at my shirt and said, "What's that, a one-eyed alien?" It was my perfect opportunity to say it was my Asperger's shirt (by the way, Asperger's has been my intense interest lately since being diagnosed this past November). Instead, I said nothing. It just felt too awkward to say it. But yet at my job (school teacher of the gifted) some of my colleagues and my students know I have Asperger's (at least I hope it's Asperger's). But even though I am able to tell them and talk to them about it, I find it awkward to do so. I feel uncomfortable talking about it---but yet I want to.

When I first realized Asperger's fit me, I did a music ministry at my church. I comfortably put in testimony including my story of my oxygen deprived birth and autism. Had I not been aware of my Asperger's, such as how I thought a year ago, I would probably have not even put testimonies into this service. But since I like being different, I decided this sounded neat. So I built in a couple other true stories of other people and their inspiration. I concluded with my story. As I stood there in front of the people, and it came time for my story---I felt incredibly uncomfortable and awkward. But, I made myself tell it. As I saw my wife and mother and father in the congregation listening to me---I felt embarassed as to telling my story. I find it terribly difficult to verbalize about myself. I feel like such a contradiction. I even alluded to this in a poem once. I wrote in one of the lines:

"I am a contradiction of inhumane humanity."

The first I can recall feeling like I loved uniqueness was when I was around 10 years old. I had been playing the organ for a couple years. My parents, particularly my father (he was a sports jock/ ex-pro baseball player---and I never felt like I lived up to his expectations. I still do not feel comfortable around him) he often bragged me up when others were at our house. He would have me play for them. I really gained confidence in music because of this.

Now, as for how I feel about people. Today as I was on lunch duty for the high school lunch, a first grade boy came into cafeteria and said his teacher gave him permission to try to find his helicopter toy that he had lost in the cafeteria. He opened his lunch box to show me that it was missing. He then started to the table where he set. It was occupied by high school students who were beginning to laugh at him. I quickly went over because I felt bad for him. Then, he proceeded to look through trash cans. Seeing him, I wanted to cry. I felt such sympathy for him and how he felt for having lost a valued toy. I am getting teary eyed thinking about him now. I have been in his shoes before.

Something else I do is this. I think this might be an Asperger't thing. I don't know if it could be a narcissist (regular narcissist/or shy narcissist) thing or not. I often feel like inanimate objects have feelings. This can apply to pencils as well as more typically thought of things like stuffed animals. Even when I was a little child I rummaged through the garbage finding things I felt like had feelings---and broken toys Mom had thrown away. I usually dragged them back in the house. Even today, at 44 years of age---my house is filled with stuff. Even thought my wife wants to get rid of some our sons school papers, I drag them out of the garbage. I feel sad at the thougts of things our sons did getting thrown away. In my mind I see our sons being prowd of their work and thus looking forward to our approval. Then it's thrown away. That just doesn't seem right.

I wonder about the intense interests of narcissists (both regular and shy/covert). I get so absorbed in things that I collect all I can about them. I got into HO scale model railroad structures---now I have over 200 models. I got into fishing reels even though I don't fish---and collected a bunch---even the same model reel used in Jaws. I collected tents as a teenager. I collected synthesizers when I was in college. Etc.

Well, this is a little more about me. I welcome your comments in my time of need here.

When I got my diagnosis, (I met the criteria on both the DSM-IV and Gillberg to such a degree that I was diagnosed without any reservation), I found myself immediately absorbed in Aspie pride. It has been my world since November. I love it. It so explains me. Even when my wife reads about Asperger's issues, she can't believe how it mirrors me. But yet, I can't get this narcissistic thing out of my mind. It symptoms are similar too.

From reading the above, it seems that the problem is not that you have NPD, but that you are stuck with the anxiety that you might have NPD and the resulting obsessive thoughts and behaviors. You then try to alleviate anxiety by checking evidence over and over again, but get so caught up that you feel unable to break the cycle until you find 100% certainty, which doesn't exist.

Such anxiety is based on seeing a grain of truth in something unpleasant (e.g., having NPD). But there's a grain of truth in almost everything. The tricky part is trying to convince your mind of that. The obsessive checking is the mind's way of seeking reassurance that the NPD idea has no or little truth to it, but this is maladaptive as it's interfering with your daily activities and causing distress; it leads to a viscious cycle of checking and re-checking when you find more reasons that vaguely support your fears. The cycle is broken by either interrupting the continual checking or dealing with the anxiety in another, healthier way such as placing the train of thoughts into a wider, more realistic context until it becomes habit. You might find some of that context by getting feedback here.

Glider,

I hope you can find closure. I understand where you are. I really do. I read many of your posts while I was in the same place. From the time I learned about Asperger’s tell the day I was diagnosed I simply couldn’t stop myself. I researched and researched. I analyzed every single moment of my life that I could remember. I was sure I had Asperger’s, but I couldn’t stop until it was confirmed. I couldn’t sleep I was so obsessed. I got one to two hours of sleep a night for several weeks straight. That took a toll on me. After an email to the president and my parents calling the police because they though I lost it, I accepted a ride from the police to “get some help”. Oh boy was that a mistake. It took 2 months to be weaned off the massive doses of meds I was prescribed.

Anyways, I just wanted to illustrate that I know how bad that question of “does Asperger’s explain all this stuff in my life” can burn. After my diagnoses, I almost reopened that door. I thought to myself “maybe I just built so strong of a case, that the doctor HAD to diagnose AS”. Then I realized that all the obsessiveness was a symptom in itself. I decided that I never fit in any box before and I wasn’t going to cram myself into one labeled Asperger’s. AS is a part of me. I don’t feel the shame I used to about some of the stuff from my past because I can point my finger at a cause. Now I need to almost forget that I have AS and continue with my life. I need to do my best to not use it as a crutch. And I need to push myself to do the things that AS would make difficult.

Regardless of diagnoses, we’re all snowflakes. The AS label isn’t going to change you. You know you’re different. From what I’ve read, you seem like a very special person. Just try to be happy with being you, and don’t stress the label.

I hope that’s somewhat helpful. Some of your words were very helpful to me when I was in the same place you are now. I just want to return the favor.

Josh

Thank you j0sh and outlier. I really appreciate the time you have spent with me so far on this issue. And j0sh, I feel honored that I could be of help to you. The funny thing is that before I read that post Friday, everything I read on Asperger's fits me---and it still does except for my issue with liking uniqueness.

So from what I have gathered so far, (I almost have to have stuff spelled out for me) you (j0sh and outlier) feel like I am Asperger's and not Narcissistic?

You don't strike me narcissistic at all. Religion and music is your passion. You don't share that to seek attention. You share it because you feel that is part of the toolbox god gave you to do his work. That's what I get out of the post I've read from you.

A narcissistic person would be too busy figuring out ways to get everyone to understand why they (the narcissists) are superior to get themselves worked up like you have. This bothering you as much as it does says you're not one in my opinion.

You obsessing over this (current obsession), having a whole list of experiences that happened before you ever heard of AS that supports an AS diagnoses, and a diagnoses to back it all up means you got AS.

It's part of your toolbox. Now it's time to obsess over figuring out the best way to put it to good use. That's what I'm trying to do now. To most people it looks like I'm just playing World of Warcraft. Maybe you already have it figured out with sharing your music. My advice is to toss the "what am I" out and just accept that god gave you a unique toolbox. AS is mixed in there with life experiences and many other things. Now go do what you feel you are here to do and don't feel guilty for doing it.

Josh

I don't know what to say except thank you j0sh. This means a lot to me. I think since November I have worn myself out mentally trying to understand myself. It has been a gruelling and often painful visit through my childhood to the present. I am quite satisfied and happy with being AS. It feels like me. Again, thank you.