They don't care if I live or die

Page 1 of 2 [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

outlier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,429

28 Feb 2009, 8:28 am

After several months of fighting with my local health authority, they've just informed me they see no reason to provide any autism services. I gave them plenty of evidence, both from autism research and of my poor daily functioning (from myself and others), that autism-specific services are required for autism and that I require them for my autism. They might only do something once my situation reaches crisis level, which is what I've been striving to prevent for the last year in dealing with them. As a result, I'm not in a good way and feel quite sickened by it all. It's like being mentally tortured.

I'd explicitly written to them that the psychiatrist they'd made me see last year had no autism expertise and could only recommend treatment for my co-morbid anxiety, i.e., medication, (and he'd even told me I knew more than him about autism); however, they have ignored the evidence that there are no drugs targeted specifically for autism, and that treatment for co-morbid anxiety alone is not treatment for autism.

The following is the sequence of events that occurred; observe the complete BSing (something one of their top managers was recently fired for admitting their job entails) and faulty reasoning, just so they can cover up that, against government guidelines, they have no local services and will not fund treatment outside the area:

1. During my appointment, the psychiatrist told me treatment of my anxiety symptoms was the only important matter, not my autism, and tried to prescribe an antidepressant.
2. However, contradicting the above opinion, the psychiatrist told me he would refer me to autism services outside the local area anyway (where some do actually exist).
3. I saw a clinical psychologist (outside of the system), who could not offer services, but had autism expertise, and he completely disagreed with the point made in 1.
4. The health authority, who have set it up so that patients have to get a referral from the psychiatrist in 1. to access services, refused their psych's referral of me to autism services.
5. My doctor encouraged me to challenge the above decision, and I went about doing so, providing enough evidence and reasoning that he could not see how they could possibly challenge it.
6. The health authority again refused the referral to autism services.
7. The health authority insists that the psychiatrist did provide me with a detailed treatment plan. However, he did not; he just told me to take pills.
8. I had previously decided not to follow the psych's recommendation to take antidepressants, because I researched them thoroughly, knew my own mind and body, and came to the conclusion they were not suitable. I'm also not severely anxious or depressed.
9. Before they will even reconsider their decision, the health authority says that I must demonstrate that the anxiety treatment plan did not work (which I can't do unless I take the unnecessary drugs, which do not cure/treat autism--autism being the whole point of this matter), as well as get the psychiatrist to RE-refer. Therefore, I'd have to undergo a treatment plan for something that is not autism (i.e., anxiety) before they will reconsider allowing me to have any autism-specific treatment!

They are ignoring evidence, using blatantly fallacious arguments, denying services recommended by their own psychiatrist, and requiring I go through the process all over again before they will deal with me! If anyone would like to share similar experiences it would help me to feel less alone.



Nim
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Sep 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,510
Location: Away

28 Feb 2009, 10:09 am

Have you tryed meds at all?

Relieving anxiety and stress relieves that pigeon hole feeling which produces a better mood which seems to at least take me out of my hard inner shell....

Note : Any time your dealing with government or services your going to get treated like a rat.



outlier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,429

28 Feb 2009, 11:10 am

I've determined that meds are unsuitable. What is required is support (which they term "treatment") that addresses the underlying issues caused by the (currently unsupported) autism: advice on the social isolation and lack of support network; help with social interaction and obsessive routines; help with anxieties; advice on how to manage; advice on services needed in future. The clinic they wanted to refer me to deals with all these issues for those with HFA/AS and performs a comprehensive assessment. It's not long-term support, but is a very good start.



whitetiger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2009
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,702
Location: Oregon

28 Feb 2009, 11:11 am

What country do you live in? or state?

I've found it's differerent everywhere. Here in OR, they have to prove you function at the level of someone with an IQ of 70 or you cannot get autism/dd services.

I've been waiting for a month to get my assessment, but my old casemanager called to see how I was doing. I told her about the test and she laughed and said, "Good Luck!"

Now, it IS possible that I function that low. It doesn't matter that my IQ is high.

I just want services!

So, I understand your frustration.

I take major meds for anxiety. The regular, usual ones don't work but I take them in addition to a beta-blocker even though I don't have high bp or anything.

It helps to take what you can get!

and join an AS support group for free help and a chance to make friends.


_________________
I am a very strange female.

http://www.youtube.com/user/whitetigerdream

Don't take life so seriously. It isn't permanent!


outlier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,429

28 Feb 2009, 11:49 am

whitetiger wrote:
I've been waiting for a month to get my assessment, but my old casemanager called to see how I was doing. I told her about the test and she laughed and said, "Good Luck!"

Now, it IS possible that I function that low. It doesn't matter that my IQ is high.

I just want services!


Yes, it's hard to get services if IQ is above 70. There are no local adult services for HFA/AS, unless maybe they consign me to a group home (not at that stage yet).

whitetiger wrote:
I take major meds for anxiety. The regular, usual ones don't work but I take them in addition to a beta-blocker even though I don't have high bp or anything.


I used to get major anxiety, but no longer do (in spite of the issues I've had to deal with in the last year), so am able to manage without meds. I do, however, feel increasingly isolated and am chronically tired; I also have difficulty securing and maintaining employment, and have other issues. These issues are autism-related and cannot be solved with meds alone.

whitetiger wrote:
and join an AS support group for free help and a chance to make friends.


Because there are none anywhere near my area, I'd have to set one up. Maybe in future.



Tahitiii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2008
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,214
Location: USA

28 Feb 2009, 12:16 pm

You sound like you know what you're doing. Do you have the whole paper trail, and can you state everything clearly to any lawyer who would be willing listen? You say that the laws are clear and that the bureaucrats are simply breaking the law. If you had the stamina and support, would you make a good poster child/test case? While local families of Aspies won't have any money, they might give emotional support. Some organized group might give you a lawyer if you look like you can take the heat. (I don't know that I could.) Maybe you could google something like "charity legal service" in your state. That, and get everyone you know to scream to the local media. I don't pretend that it would be easy. Just that it's something to consider.



whitetiger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2009
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,702
Location: Oregon

28 Feb 2009, 12:37 pm

I also have issues with employment, keeping a job, etc., so I'm on SSDI. I also work part time from home.

I find that I still need the anxiety treatment, because living in a world where we are constantly over-stimulated requires getting a handle on it as much as possible. I respect your choice not to do it though.

It's an insult to you to just tell you to handle the anxiety and not to offer support for your autism.


_________________
I am a very strange female.

http://www.youtube.com/user/whitetigerdream

Don't take life so seriously. It isn't permanent!


outlier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,429

28 Feb 2009, 12:54 pm

Tahitiii: Yes, I have plenty of evidence they are not following government guidelines. By not following the guidelines, the local authority is essentially going against disability and human rights legislation, so there should be a case there. The trouble is that it would take years to get anywhere, especially without the UK autism bill in place (which will make it outright illegal for them to not provide services for autism), so that would be my last option to try. The local media is a very good idea. I also found a health watch set up in my local area, which deals with feedback on health and social services. However, it was established by the local authorities.



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,960

28 Feb 2009, 3:34 pm

outlier wrote:
After several months of fighting with my local health authority, they've just informed me they see no reason to provide any autism services. I gave them plenty of evidence, both from autism research and of my poor daily functioning (from myself and others), that autism-specific services are required for autism and that I require them for my autism. They might only do something once my situation reaches crisis level, which is what I've been striving to prevent for the last year in dealing with them. As a result, I'm not in a good way and feel quite sickened by it all. It's like being mentally tortured.

I'd explicitly written to them that the psychiatrist they'd made me see last year had no autism expertise and could only recommend treatment for my co-morbid anxiety, i.e., medication, (and he'd even told me I knew more than him about autism); however, they have ignored the evidence that there are no drugs targeted specifically for autism, and that treatment for co-morbid anxiety alone is not treatment for autism.

The following is the sequence of events that occurred; observe the complete BSing (something one of their top managers was recently fired for admitting their job entails) and faulty reasoning, just so they can cover up that, against government guidelines, they have no local services and will not fund treatment outside the area:

1. During my appointment, the psychiatrist told me treatment of my anxiety symptoms was the only important matter, not my autism, and tried to prescribe an antidepressant.
2. However, contradicting the above opinion, the psychiatrist told me he would refer me to autism services outside the local area anyway (where some do actually exist).
3. I saw a clinical psychologist (outside of the system), who could not offer services, but had autism expertise, and he completely disagreed with the point made in 1.
4. The health authority, who have set it up so that patients have to get a referral from the psychiatrist in 1. to access services, refused their psych's referral of me to autism services.
5. My doctor encouraged me to challenge the above decision, and I went about doing so, providing enough evidence and reasoning that he could not see how they could possibly challenge it.
6. The health authority again refused the referral to autism services.
7. The health authority insists that the psychiatrist did provide me with a detailed treatment plan. However, he did not; he just told me to take pills.
8. I had previously decided not to follow the psych's recommendation to take antidepressants, because I researched them thoroughly, knew my own mind and body, and came to the conclusion they were not suitable. I'm also not severely anxious or depressed.
9. Before they will even reconsider their decision, the health authority says that I must demonstrate that the anxiety treatment plan did not work (which I can't do unless I take the unnecessary drugs, which do not cure/treat autism--autism being the whole point of this matter), as well as get the psychiatrist to RE-refer. Therefore, I'd have to undergo a treatment plan for something that is not autism (i.e., anxiety) before they will reconsider allowing me to have any autism-specific treatment!

They are ignoring evidence, using blatantly fallacious arguments, denying services recommended by their own psychiatrist, and requiring I go through the process all over again before they will deal with me! If anyone would like to share similar experiences it would help me to feel less alone.


I hope nobody thinks ill-will of me on this but there might be a way to obtain the services we need. It would be very unethical and dishonest and I hate to say this but we could possibly fudge the IQ test and bring our score < 70. I hate to even think of this because I know this is dishonest but there are some on the spectrum who have an IQ of genius level (Einstein's level) and cannot even obtain employment at all. All honest methods we have tried have been exhausted.

In fact, I am having a difficult time obtaining the paperwork from the autism center here. The truth and the facts of the matter are that we cannot be something we are not and the NT world is trying to do pygmalion on us.

The treatment for aspergers is social skills training. The truth is is that it does not work. We can learn it in theory but we can get to a point in which we reach something called the uncanny valley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley. I give credit to Kate Gladstone, another aspie, for pointing this out to me. What happens is is that we miss the mark of being a healthy person by the NT's point of view. This means they get a bad feeling from us when we know their social skills but cannot do it in their exact way which is by instinct. We lack this instinct they have.

Even the the psychopath is discovered eventually for what he/she is. The point is is that fakes are eventually discovered. You cannot act your through life. I have tried to do that myself and learned that the hard way. Personally, what of all of their treatments will do is get us into this uncanny valley and I don't think there is a way to get out of this uncanny valley. I do not think there is a treatment for this.

This means there are these options available to us:
1. Pour our energies into having the NT world accepting of who we are
2. We could make ourselves having a lower IQ by either faking the IQ test or truly damaging our brain through whatever means necessary.
3. We obtain capital and resources somehow and form our own society based upon our values and our mindset. This means our society needs to be completely self-sufficient.

Option 2 is completely dishonest and I hate that option with a passion.
Option 1 is doable and we have been currently doing this but we may end up having to do option 3 because when we try to talk to NTs they misperceive what we say for whatever reason. When we state facts to NTs and ask for help from NTs they think we're doing these things:

1. blaming society or other people
2. making excuses
3. not taking responsibility
4. think we're arguing with them when all we're doing is asking for clarity

Why they think this way I do not know and it's lost upon me?



outlier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,429

28 Feb 2009, 7:03 pm

whitetiger wrote:
It's an insult to you to just tell you to handle the anxiety and not to offer support for your autism.


True. They only ever concentrate on the anxiety symptoms, yet don't treat that properly either (I've been given inappropriate therapy in the past.) Mental health services here are dire, and adult autism ones are non-existent. It's not surprising they try to take the focus off the autism by concentrating on co-morbids: they'd have to admit how negligent they've been.

cubedemon6073 wrote:
The treatment for aspergers is social skills training. The truth is is that it does not work. We can learn it in theory but we can get to a point in which we reach something called the uncanny valley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley. I give credit to Kate Gladstone, another aspie, for pointing this out to me. What happens is is that we miss the mark of being a healthy person by the NT's point of view. This means they get a bad feeling from us when we know their social skills but cannot do it in their exact way which is by instinct. We lack this instinct they have.


Since I haven't been able to obtain treatment or support for autism, I cannot report on its effectiveness. However, it would be myopic to expect those with neurological differences to become something they cannot, or should not, be. Any support should focus on the individual, helping them understand their differences and situation better if necessary. It should respect their innate differences, and not impose external values.


cubedemon6073 wrote:
This means there are these options available to us:
1. Pour our energies into having the NT world accepting of who we are
2. We could make ourselves having a lower IQ by either faking the IQ test or truly damaging our brain through whatever means necessary.
3. We obtain capital and resources somehow and form our own society based upon our values and our mindset. This means our society needs to be completely self-sufficient.

Option 2 is completely dishonest and I hate that option with a passion.
Option 1 is doable and we have been currently doing this but we may end up having to do option 3 because when we try to talk to NTs they misperceive what we say for whatever reason. When we state facts to NTs and ask for help from NTs they think we're doing these things:

1. blaming society or other people
2. making excuses
3. not taking responsibility
4. think we're arguing with them when all we're doing is asking for clarity

Why they think this way I do not know and it's lost upon me?


Option 1 is worth a try: some people are educable; they can create legislation to keep the remainder in check :wink:. Option 2 would be dangerous (and, like you said, dishonest). Option 3: I've no idea how that might turn out.



pandd
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,430

28 Feb 2009, 10:50 pm

outlier wrote:
Tahitiii: Yes, I have plenty of evidence they are not following government guidelines. By not following the guidelines, the local authority is essentially going against disability and human rights legislation, so there should be a case there. The trouble is that it would take years to get anywhere, especially without the UK autism bill in place (which will make it outright illegal for them to not provide services for autism), so that would be my last option to try. The local media is a very good idea. I also found a health watch set up in my local area, which deals with feedback on health and social services. However, it was established by the local authorities.

Have you tried contacting NAS (if you are a UK resident)? I understand that they are currently running a campaign about exactly the kinds of issues you are facing (a lack of services and support for adults with autism).

They may be able to give you advice, or at least offer you some words or support. Your concerns might be useful for them to be aware of (in light of their campaign).

The most unlikely but most ideal result (that they will give you practical support perhaps in the form of advocacy) could even happen.

If you have not already tried, I suggest you google this organization, read up their web-site and if you think they might be able to help you in one the of the ways described above, email them.

I apologize for wasting your time if you have already tried this or reside outside the UK.



outlier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,429

01 Mar 2009, 3:48 am

pandd wrote:
Have you tried contacting NAS (if you are a UK resident)? I understand that they are currently running a campaign about exactly the kinds of issues you are facing (a lack of services and support for adults with autism).

They may be able to give you advice, or at least offer you some words or support. Your concerns might be useful for them to be aware of (in light of their campaign).


Yes, I contacted them once; they were very understanding. They said they were always getting inquiries about the lack of local services. They could not offer me any practical help at the time.

I've also provided their campaign with information on my local authority's dire service commissioning.

pandd wrote:
The most unlikely but most ideal result (that they will give you practical support perhaps in the form of advocacy) could even happen.


I'm glad you reminded me of the NAS. It's definitely worth contacting them again now that the situation has degenerated.

I've been thinking about this situation and the response given by the authorities, which was illogical and insulting, in a broader context. It reeks of a system in crisis, and their treatment of service users is pathological; I don't know what can be offered in a system that seems to be on the verge of collapse.



Gromit
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 May 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,302
Location: In Cognito

01 Mar 2009, 3:10 pm

Edit: I'm not sure enough my contribution would be useful, but I can't delete the whole post.



outlier
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,429

01 Mar 2009, 5:42 pm

I welcome suggestions; even if they turn out to not apply to this situation very well, they can help trigger ideas.



KingdomOfRats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,833
Location: f'ton,manchester UK

01 Mar 2009, 9:11 pm

outlier,
what sort of support is it that want? is it a support staff,for helping in any sort of way?
if so,ask the NAS about getting onto their outreach support,which is where one of the support staff will come to the home.
Funding for it is done through council/social services.

Am have severe autism and because am 'too much trouble for LD services on their own'-get nas staff funding very easily,have funding for both two nas staff to self,and one nas staff to self daily,
as well as own LD staff-think HR DLA pays towards those.

it isnt fair if own council is being crappy and not wanting to give up any funding for nas,but get local mp involved if they say no.
do have a social worker? if have got a mental health problem as well,what about applying for a MH social worker,to get someone fighting for self that way?

Autistics usually get put under LD services in social services,but most areas in uk have a minimum criteria of critical/high support needs-including personal care,and an iq in MR range,it will be very difficult for aspies to get ld services as their criteria says no big problems with self help when big problems with self help is part of ss criteria.It isn't fair,but they're trying to cut back on funding,there is one thing can count on with the council/ss,its never about people its about money.

Another idea have thought of-have ever had a care assessment by social services?
ask for another,with someone who understands the ASD have got and find out if qualify for direct payment,which would get self a support staff,am think have to get certain amount of hours awarded to get DP.


_________________
>severely autistic.
>>the residential autist; http://theresidentialautist.blogspot.co.uk
blogging from the view of an ex institutionalised autism/ID activist now in community care.
>>>help to keep bullying off our community,report it!


marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

02 Mar 2009, 3:48 am

whitetiger wrote:
I've found it's differerent everywhere. Here in OR, they have to prove you function at the level of someone with an IQ of 70 or you cannot get autism/dd services.

Hahahahaha. WTF! Seriously. That's like denying services to someone with missing limbs because their IQ is above 70. Autism and IQ have nothing to do with each other.