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AmoralHeart
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21 Mar 2013, 10:21 am

I'm a mix of Caucasian (Western European), Black (African) and Native (South America).
EDIT: I'm not sure what is the right world for South American Indigenous people, so I used "Native".

pokerface wrote:
What I would like to know is if the biracial people on this forum have ever found it difficult and complicated to be mixed race.
Don't get side tracked by my avatar. In real life I do have a mixed race background and there where periods in my life that I had some problems with that. Sometimes the feeling that I didn't belong anywhere involuntarily crept up on me. What also contributed to this is the lack of acceptance from the white- as well as the black side.

Something that also disturbes me is the fact that white people seem to think that everyone with a mixed race heritage looks gorgeous. I have never been stunningly beautiful and I don 't look like Halle Berry or Alicia Keys, if only...

At home I've only seen 'milder' forms of racism, not very clear cut. When I lived in Europe I became very aware of my mixed race heritage, it went from racial insults to promises of undying love (mixed race = gorgeous, as you put it), at times I felt like an exotic animal in exhibition.

I would say that in my life there were good and bad that came with being mixed race, it complicated some issues but it helped me in others. Of course, I still feel insulted when I hear an ignorant commentary or get discriminated somewhere, I wished it didn't happen but that's life.

Overall I don't think it complicated my life more than being on the spectrum, I believe that the feeling of not belonging anywhere emanates from this and not from being mixed race.


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Last edited by AmoralHeart on 21 Mar 2013, 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cafeaulait
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21 Mar 2013, 10:52 am

AmoralHeart wrote:
I'm a mix of Caucasian (Western European), Black (African) and Native (South America).

pokerface wrote:
What I would like to know is if the biracial people on this forum have ever found it difficult and complicated to be mixed race.
Don't get side tracked by my avatar. In real life I do have a mixed race background and there where periods in my life that I had some problems with that. Sometimes the feeling that I didn't belong anywhere involuntarily crept up on me. What also contributed to this is the lack of acceptance from the white- as well as the black side.

Something that also disturbes me is the fact that white people seem to think that everyone with a mixed race heritage looks gorgeous. I have never been stunningly beautiful and I don 't look like Halle Berry or Alicia Keys, if only...

At home I've only seen 'milder' forms of racism, not very clear cut. When I lived in Europe I became very aware of my mixed race heritage, it went from racial insults to promises of undying love (mixed race = gorgeous, as you put it), at times I felt like an exotic animal in exhibition.

I would say that in my life there were good and bad that came with being mixed race, it complicated some issues but it helped me in others. Of course, I still feel insulted when I hear an ignorant commentary or get discriminated somewhere, I wished it didn't happen but that's life.

Overall I don't think it complicated my life more than being on the spectrum, I believe that the feeling of not belonging anywhere emanates from this and not from being mixed race.


What country did you live in?



AmoralHeart
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21 Mar 2013, 11:29 am

Cafeaulait wrote:
What country did you live in?

Do you mean in Europe? If yes, I lived in England.


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Cafeaulait
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21 Mar 2013, 11:59 am

pokerface wrote:
What I would like to know is if the biracial people on this forum have ever found it difficult and complicated to be mixed race.
Don't get side tracked by my avatar. In real life I do have a mixed race background and there where periods in my life that I had some problems with that. Sometimes the feeling that I didn't belong anywhere involuntarily crept up on me. What also contributed to this is the lack of acceptance from the white- as well as the black side.


Its funny because you are Dutch like me. Usually when I hear 'is the lack of acceptance from the white- as well as the black side' it comes from the American biracials.
Do you feel like both white and black people are less acceptive of you?
Because we live in the same society but I have never felt this way.



Cafeaulait
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21 Mar 2013, 12:00 pm

AmoralHeart wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
What country did you live in?

Do you mean in Europe? If yes, I lived in England.


And now you live in the United States? I always thought overt racism was worse in the USA (especially down south)



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21 Mar 2013, 12:14 pm

In a lot of places, there is also reverse racism now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_discrimination

It's clearly gone into overdrive:

http://blackgirldangerous.tumblr.com/po ... -step-list

Quote:
How To Be A Reverse-Racist: An Actual Step by Step List For Oppressing White People


Obviously there is a widespread history of white people treating ethnic minorities badly, but in more civilized societies things are far more equal (you can never account for individual peoples' racist attitudes obviously). However, for ethnic minorities to perpetuate racial difficulties for everyone by going too far the other way is unhelpful and counterproductive. They can't blame modern societies for what went on in history and treat their white fellow humans accordingly.

Probably even more dangerous is positive discrimination:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk-ba ... 83055.html

The whole racial thing is a human construct and unnecessary, everyone is equal to everyone else in that way, as others have pointed out.

(including us all being mixed-race :wink: )


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AmoralHeart
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21 Mar 2013, 12:33 pm

Cafeaulait wrote:
AmoralHeart wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
What country did you live in?

Do you mean in Europe? If yes, I lived in England.

And now you live in the United States? I always thought overt racism was worse in the USA (especially down south)

No, now I live in Canada.

I'll try to explain how I see it, there are forms of racism, also as all other "isms" everywhere in the world. In England I've experienced racism for the first time, not because it has more or less racism than anywhere else, but because I had never experienced it before. I had a very protected upbringing, so in my early twenties it came somehow as a shock to realize that I was actually mixed race, as I wasn't very aware of it before. Now I know that I'm 'visibly' different when away from home.

Nowadays, overt racism I see it mostly on the internet, not personally (which is a progress).


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AmoralHeart
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21 Mar 2013, 1:08 pm

I'll refrain from hijacking the thread or this is going to finish in PPR. :)

whirlingmind wrote:
In a lot of places, there is also reverse racism now.

I was writing when your message got posted, but that's what I meant by "...there are forms of racism, also as all other "isms" everywhere in the world".

whirlingmind wrote:
Obviously there is a widespread history of white people treating ethnic minorities badly, but in more civilized societies things are far more equal (you can never account for individual peoples' racist attitudes obviously). However, for ethnic minorities to perpetuate racial difficulties for everyone by going too far the other way is unhelpful and counterproductive. They can't blame modern societies for what went on in history and treat their white fellow humans accordingly.

I agree, but you have to cut some people some slack, so they don't feel like you are dismissing their struggles. As I mentioned in my previous post I had a very sheltered childhood so I didn't grow up in a society where I was a visible minority. This video may be clearer in what I'm trying to say, some people feel stronger about these issues for obvious reasons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=derzWWYf3-w

whirlingmind wrote:
The whole racial thing is a human construct and unnecessary, everyone is equal to everyone else in that way, as others have pointed out. (including us all being mixed-race :wink: )

If you are mixed-race and visible, as part of a visible minority even if you want to live your life ignoring race issues, sometimes it's not possible because someone, somewhere, one day may point it out to you, nicely or not. It is a great ideal a world where race, gender, sexuality et al don't matter, I would love it, hopefully one day but I don't think I'll be alive to see it.


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Cafeaulait
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21 Mar 2013, 2:12 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
In a lot of places, there is also reverse racism now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_discrimination

It's clearly gone into overdrive:

http://blackgirldangerous.tumblr.com/po ... -step-list

Quote:
How To Be A Reverse-Racist: An Actual Step by Step List For Oppressing White People


Obviously there is a widespread history of white people treating ethnic minorities badly, but in more civilized societies things are far more equal (you can never account for individual peoples' racist attitudes obviously). However, for ethnic minorities to perpetuate racial difficulties for everyone by going too far the other way is unhelpful and counterproductive. They can't blame modern societies for what went on in history and treat their white fellow humans accordingly.

Probably even more dangerous is positive discrimination:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk-ba ... 83055.html

The whole racial thing is a human construct and unnecessary, everyone is equal to everyone else in that way, as others have pointed out.

(including us all being mixed-race :wink: )


I think almost all of what you have written is complete nonsense and very naive. From what etnic background are you?



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21 Mar 2013, 2:19 pm

AmoralHeart wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
AmoralHeart wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
What country did you live in?

Do you mean in Europe? If yes, I lived in England.

And now you live in the United States? I always thought overt racism was worse in the USA (especially down south)

No, now I live in Canada.

I'll try to explain how I see it, there are forms of racism, also as all other "isms" everywhere in the world. In England I've experienced racism for the first time, not because it has more or less racism than anywhere else, but because I had never experienced it before. I had a very protected upbringing, so in my early twenties it came somehow as a shock to realize that I was actually mixed race, as I wasn't very aware of it before. Now I know that I'm 'visibly' different when away from home.

Nowadays, overt racism I see it mostly on the internet, not personally (which is a progress).


That last thing is very true. There are so many stupid people on the internet. Almost unbelievable.



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21 Mar 2013, 2:29 pm

AmoralHeart wrote:
I'll refrain from hijacking the thread or this is going to finish in PPR. :)

whirlingmind wrote:
In a lot of places, there is also reverse racism now.

I was writing when your message got posted, but that's what I meant by "...there are forms of racism, also as all other "isms" everywhere in the world".

whirlingmind wrote:
Obviously there is a widespread history of white people treating ethnic minorities badly, but in more civilized societies things are far more equal (you can never account for individual peoples' racist attitudes obviously). However, for ethnic minorities to perpetuate racial difficulties for everyone by going too far the other way is unhelpful and counterproductive. They can't blame modern societies for what went on in history and treat their white fellow humans accordingly.

I agree, but you have to cut some people some slack, so they don't feel like you are dismissing their struggles. As I mentioned in my previous post I had a very sheltered childhood so I didn't grow up in a society where I was a visible minority. This video may be clearer in what I'm trying to say, some people feel stronger about these issues for obvious reasons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=derzWWYf3-w

whirlingmind wrote:
The whole racial thing is a human construct and unnecessary, everyone is equal to everyone else in that way, as others have pointed out. (including us all being mixed-race :wink: )

If you are mixed-race and visible, as part of a visible minority even if you want to live your life ignoring race issues, sometimes it's not possible because someone, somewhere, one day may point it out to you, nicely or not. It is a great ideal a world where race, gender, sexuality et al don't matter, I would love it, hopefully one day but I don't think I'll be alive to see it.


I doubt it. You should read these.

http://books.google.nl/books?hl=nl&lr=& ... re&f=false
http://wws.princeton.edu/wws-news-magaz ... ew-racism/
http://jft-newspaper.aub.edu.lb/reserve ... p06335.pdf

I study social psychology, had to read them.



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21 Mar 2013, 2:43 pm

Cafeaulait wrote:
pokerface wrote:
What I would like to know is if the biracial people on this forum have ever found it difficult and complicated to be mixed race.
Don't get side tracked by my avatar. In real life I do have a mixed race background and there where periods in my life that I had some problems with that. Sometimes the feeling that I didn't belong anywhere involuntarily crept up on me. What also contributed to this is the lack of acceptance from the white- as well as the black side.


Its funny because you are Dutch like me. Usually when I hear 'is the lack of acceptance from the white- as well as the black side' it comes from the American biracials.
Do you feel like both white and black people are less acceptive of you?
Because we live in the same society but I have never felt this way.



I don't think Holland is a racist country. Allthough dutch people are not nearly as tolerant as they think they are. I have experienced that from an early age on. What strikes me is the fact that white people see me as a foreigner. If you are dutch you are probably familiar with the word 'allochtoon'. That is how people tend to see me and it has certainly not improved during the last couple of years. The tolerance of the dutch for people who don't have a dutch appearance is deteriorating.

My skincolor is quite dark compared to other biracials so black people do see me as black. What seems to trouble them is the fact that my behaviour is 100% dutch. I was raised by my dutch mother and her family. My father was not around when I grew up in the Netherlands. I was four years old the last time I saw him. Unfortanetely I didn't have the chance to be around his familymembers which means that I never got acqainted with his culture. To make a long story short: black people see me as a black person who behaves like a dutch white person.

What I find particular strange in Holland is the fact that the mixed race people over here are not even remotely interested in each other. Some of them are to busy pretending they're white and that everything is fine and others simply carry on with their own lives which is actually a good choice.

That does not mean that I have major problems with the fact that I am mixed race. I am over that now but I still think that it can be complicated sometimes.



Last edited by pokerface on 21 Mar 2013, 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AmoralHeart
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21 Mar 2013, 2:56 pm

Cafeaulait wrote:
I doubt it. You should read these.

http://books.google.nl/books?hl=nl&lr=& ... re&f=false
http://wws.princeton.edu/wws-news-magaz ... ew-racism/
http://jft-newspaper.aub.edu.lb/reserve ... p06335.pdf

I study social psychology, had to read them.

I'm not sure which part you are referring to from reading the introduction and abstract from the links, I didn't see the connection between the way racial politics are changing in the USA and my opinions.

Summarizing what I said (the quote was getting too long): There is racism and other "isms" (i.e. other types of prejudice) everywhere in the world; being racist back is not an answer but people's experiences, struggles, etc., should not be dismissed either; race issues cannot be ignored even if wanted by someone who is part of a visible minority, concluding with I would love to live in a world where race, gender, sexuality, etc., are not a concern.


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21 Mar 2013, 2:56 pm

Cafeaulait wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
In a lot of places, there is also reverse racism now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_discrimination

It's clearly gone into overdrive:

http://blackgirldangerous.tumblr.com/po ... -step-list

Quote:
How To Be A Reverse-Racist: An Actual Step by Step List For Oppressing White People


Obviously there is a widespread history of white people treating ethnic minorities badly, but in more civilized societies things are far more equal (you can never account for individual peoples' racist attitudes obviously). However, for ethnic minorities to perpetuate racial difficulties for everyone by going too far the other way is unhelpful and counterproductive. They can't blame modern societies for what went on in history and treat their white fellow humans accordingly.

Probably even more dangerous is positive discrimination:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk-ba ... 83055.html

The whole racial thing is a human construct and unnecessary, everyone is equal to everyone else in that way, as others have pointed out.

(including us all being mixed-race :wink: )


I think almost all of what you have written is complete nonsense and very naive. From what etnic background are you?


Well I believe the sum total of what you have written is nonsense also, but I have refrained from pointing it out until you resorted to saying such things. There is a lot of logic in what I said, and if you care to read, other posters (including those who you would allow into your own skewed perception of mixed race) have agreed with my points. Let's just agree to differ shall we. You have claimed to not understand previous posts which were glaringly obvious, and you are now claiming what I have posted is nonsense, even though most of it is not written by myself but from links, just with a small amount of comment from myself.

I notice that you didn't comment on this, or condemn it:

http://blackgirldangerous.tumblr.com/po ... -step-list

Quote:
How To Be A Reverse-Racist: An Actual Step by Step List For Oppressing White People


Just chose to ignore that to suit your own agenda and cherry-pick where it suits you.

Like I say, we both have differing views, mine is a more open-minded one which tries to give more viewpoints and information and be more inclusive, yours from the outset never was going to be because you have admitted higher up the thread you only consider people mixed race if they have obviously ethnic features such as darker skin or Asian eye type etc. As for asking what my ethnic background is, that wonderfully illustrates my point.

So let's leave it at that between us and we can each respond to other posters on the thread as we see fit.


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Last edited by whirlingmind on 21 Mar 2013, 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

whirlingmind
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21 Mar 2013, 2:59 pm

AmoralHeart wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
I doubt it. You should read these.

http://books.google.nl/books?hl=nl&lr=& ... re&f=false
http://wws.princeton.edu/wws-news-magaz ... ew-racism/
http://jft-newspaper.aub.edu.lb/reserve ... p06335.pdf

I study social psychology, had to read them.

I'm not sure which part you are referring to from reading the introduction and abstract from the links, I didn't see the connection between the way racial politics are changing in the USA and my opinions.

Summarizing what I said (the quote was getting too long): There is racism and other "isms" (i.e. other types of prejudice) everywhere in the world; being racist back is not an answer but people's experiences, struggles, etc., should not be dismissed either; race issues cannot be ignored even if wanted by someone who is part of a visible minority, concluding with I would love to live in a world where race, gender, sexuality, etc., are not a concern.


AmoralHeart, I like your outlook. No-one, including myself would consider minimising the suffering of ethnic minorities - or any other group, but exclusivity and reverse racism are not the answer.

PS great avatar


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Cafeaulait
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21 Mar 2013, 3:19 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
Cafeaulait wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
In a lot of places, there is also reverse racism now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_discrimination

It's clearly gone into overdrive:

http://blackgirldangerous.tumblr.com/po ... -step-list

Quote:
How To Be A Reverse-Racist: An Actual Step by Step List For Oppressing White People


Obviously there is a widespread history of white people treating ethnic minorities badly, but in more civilized societies things are far more equal (you can never account for individual peoples' racist attitudes obviously). However, for ethnic minorities to perpetuate racial difficulties for everyone by going too far the other way is unhelpful and counterproductive. They can't blame modern societies for what went on in history and treat their white fellow humans accordingly.

Probably even more dangerous is positive discrimination:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk-ba ... 83055.html

The whole racial thing is a human construct and unnecessary, everyone is equal to everyone else in that way, as others have pointed out.

(including us all being mixed-race :wink: )


I think almost all of what you have written is complete nonsense and very naive. From what etnic background are you?


Well I believe the sum total of what you have written is nonsense also, but I have refrained from pointing it out until you resorted to saying such things. There is a lot of logic in what I said, and if you care to read, other posters (including those who you would allow into your own skewed perception of mixed race) have agreed with my points. Let's just agree to differ shall we. You have claimed to not understand previous posts which were glaringly obvious, and you are now claiming what I have posted is nonsense, even though most of it is not written by myself but from links, just with a small amount of comment from myself.

I notice that you didn't comment on this, or condemn it:

http://blackgirldangerous.tumblr.com/po ... -step-list

Quote:
How To Be A Reverse-Racist: An Actual Step by Step List For Oppressing White People


Just chose to ignore that to suit your own agenda and cherry-pick where it suits you.

Like I say, we both have differing views, mine is a more open-minded one which tries to give more viewpoints and information and be more inclusive, yours from the outset never was going to be because you have admitted higher up the thread you only consider people mixed race if they have obviously ethnic features such as darker skin or Asian eye type etc. As for asking what my ethnic background is, that wonderfully illustrates my point.

So let's leave it at that between us and we can each respond to other posters on the thread as we see fit.


Oh please, funny how you try to make your points of view look more superior to mine with your ´open minded´ and ´viewpoints´. You could have said ´we both have differing views. I think yours is nonsense´ and just leave it at that. I already stated a million times that the last thing you have said I said is not true.

But you just chose to ignore that to suit your own agenda and cherry-pick where it suits you the best, including ignoring a very normal question.