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AG put smiley emoticons afterwards to show he was kidding around. He also did address the question seriously afterwards. I laugh at a lot of jokes that are both offensive and inoffensive. That does not mean I always agree with them, but I do have an incredibly broad sense of humor



Well, as I mentioned, I don't see what's wrong with laughing at a joke, especially since AG made it evident it *was* a joke with the emoticons following, which was likely an effort to avoid offending the actual OP and hopefully get a chuckle

I say worse things about myself, I have a self deprecating sense of humor.

If you guys want, I could link you a few threads from around the same time where some theist/s claimed atheists are brain damaged, immoral, and wished us all death or imprisonment. You don't tend to see us saying the same about religious people...

I don't think Vigilans hates us, I just don't think he understands the small space that has been created here, or understands why he should respect it, or by extension, us.

Last edited by Moog on 09 Feb 2012, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You're completely missing the point of this thread.

We all know intolerance in large and small forms goes on, from atheist and theist alike.

This isn't the 'demonstrate that theists are as bad as atheists' thread.

What does that prove anyway? Yeah, some people are dicks.

The problem is: that joke was offensive. It doesn't matter it was a joke. For the person to whom it was addressed (or, if not addressed, related to) it could have been offensive, for it was not the time and the place to make jokes (and laugh at them), but to talk about what had been said. I would feel a little offended with that, and the emoticons, depending on how I "read" them, would only make the whole thing even worse.

But this joke is only one of the (lots of) examples of the offensive remarks in the PPR forum. I could search for some myself too, but there's no need to do that. Of course there probably were theists 'provoking' atheists in some threads (though I haven't seen many, but, ok, I'm not reading the threads there). And that's not good too. But, for example, I never did it. This is not the way I like things. And it's for this very reason that I like to be treated the same way – what almost never happened when I was posting in those threads.

Has anybody even read anything I've written in this thread or is it more fun to assume what my motives are?

I have already stated I support a place for the sort of theistic discussion this thread desires. I haven't done anything to disrespect anybody's beliefs or persons. My only point is that the religious topics that tend to get discussed in PPR are controversial in nature so there should be little surprise if they arouse... controversy.




What does it prove? I could ask the exact same thing about this little adventure we're now going on about AG's comment since it is literally the exact same argument yet your positions switch because its a theist involved

There are four lights.

Because perception is supreme.

If only it were as simple as "theist vs atheist". This is a common theme in this thread, at least amongst theists, about the PPR. It really is not the case though. Its generally ignorance vs rationality. Sometimes the theists or atheists are on either side. Being a theist does not mean that one doesn't support science or is by default in disagreement with anything said by an atheist. Likewise I am sure there are atheists who don't really consider the scientific method fruitful or care at all. It really depends on the topic. Homophobic threads tend to get atheists and theists on one side and generally only fundamentalist theists on the other. Its not really us vs them its usually more complicated. The general atmosphere is pro-debate on any topic, theists are not the only ones who get questioned, though with the way people speak around here, you'd think so

Yes, it would be nice if we could bifurcate the PPR forum, but we can't.

I don't really know what you're doing here, but what I've read in the last few pages seemed rather condescending. I read that you think we should all 'harden up', and I find that assertion offensive.

I know you really like PPR, but we don't. This isn't the place to tell us what we should think or feel about it. People don't usually take kindly to being told that their thoughts, opinions, feelings are invalid.

I said that because I found people's assertion that I hate/think I'm better than them offensive. A lot of theists take atheism as a personal insult, I don't see why I shouldn't tell them not to by being less pointlessly sensitive to insults that are not there...

I have not been condescending or disrespectful, I have not insulted anybody, their beliefs, or told them what to do [other than to harden up and thus not be offended by things not.. offensive, which is good advice for *anybody*].

I don't care if people don't like or like the PPR nor am I telling anybody how they should feel about it. My whole point was that controversial religious topics tend to be the only ones discussed there so there should be little surprise that there is controversy

How do you harden up? Many people can't do this. It's a very apathetic response.
I have made it clear a number of times that I respect the beliefs of atheists and everything else.

"People often think of Christian morality as a kind of bargain in which God says, 'If you keep a lot of rules I'll reward you, and if you don't I'll do the other thing.' ... I would much rather say that every time you make a choice you are turning the central part of you, the part of you that chooses, into something a little different from what it was before. ... all your life long you are slowly turning this central thing either into a heavenly creature or into a hellish creature" -- C. S. Lewis

I pretty much go along with this view. Another way to put it, although I think it more or less comes out to the same thing, is that to be with God (the ultimate source of everything good) is heaven and not to be is hell.

An analogy I heard that I think is good is that heaven is like a giant pot of delicious soup with everybody seated around it, but nobody can fill their own bowl, because all the spoons reach all the way to the other side, and there isn't room to back the spoons up. But everyone is happy, because the people on the other side are only too happy to fill your bowl for you. Hell is exactly the same, but with different people.

In many interpretations (including mine), free will plays a part, and it is ultimately because of free will that people would go to hell. Another C. S. Lewis quote: "... the doors of hell are locked on the inside."

Some people seem to think that believing in the existence of hell is somehow morally bad. I've never understood why they think that. Nobody likes the idea of hell, or if they do, it's a particularly hellish pleasure.

Dear Ancalagon, thank you. Lot to think about...C.S.Lewis has always been a favorite of mine and I appreciate hearing from others who go beyond the Narnia stories.


Sylkat

I'm not Christian, but I appreciate C.S. Lewis' writings (his literary works). And this is an interesting view. The idea of the 'final fate' of those who let their evil inclination control them is exactly to be forever in the darkness without God – and that's the worse thing one could ever have, worse than torture, worse than fire, worse than anything we could imagine. That's because it's part of our nature, to be searching for God, to be near the One who created us. Those who deny His existence do have this too, tending to substitute the 'object' of their search – God – for something else (such as knowledge, power, and wealth). The essence, however, is the same – all human beings long for God, aware of it or not. That's why the worse 'punishment' (which is not exactly a 'punishment', but something people will get back for what they do here in this world) would be to be forever away from God, and, therefore, to be forever missing something, forever with a hole inside that will never be filled. That's sad.

I don't believe that and don't have that. Not everyone does.

I don't see it as a "punishment" to be away from something I don't believe exists.

I'm fine if people want to believe in it themselves but I don't like it when people insist I share in their beliefs when I do not.

I didn't say you – and other atheists or such – share this belief. I think you missed my point, but that was clear. You're always searching for something. Maybe you search for knowledge. Maybe science is your goal. Then science – or even yourself – would be your 'god'. That's the way your mind does it, since you don't believe in the existence of a supreme being. We never feel 'satisfied'. I don't and you don't – aware of it or not.

The Buddhists call that Dukkha

What's your religion Kobi?