03 Aug 2010, 12:45 pm
leejosepho
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
03 Aug 2010, 12:50 pm
03 Aug 2010, 6:19 pm
If I punch you in your face while your eyes are closed, does it hurt?
Nodding in agreement. That's one of the dumbest riddles I know of. The presence or absence of people doesn't change the laws of physics.
03 Aug 2010, 6:42 pm
04 Aug 2010, 12:17 am
04 Aug 2010, 12:36 am
CowboyFromHell
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Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Age: 37
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Posts: 1,158
Location: Surprise, Arizona
04 Aug 2010, 10:28 am
humans aren't the only things with ears
I can't count how many times this "If a tree falls in a forest and no one's does it still make a sound?" subject was brought up in school. Nobody ever mentioned anything about animals possibly hearing it.
You make the human race proud. I'm actually serious.
But wait... if you or anyone else had stated your reply in the classroom and there was no other intelligent people around, would it still be an intelligent statement?
There's a new question for the ages!!
04 Aug 2010, 10:48 am
Who's to say it even fell. If someone has to be there to percieve the falling making a sound, for there to be a sound, then surely someone has to be there to percieve it falling, in order for it to fall. Otherwise all we can say is that it was upright, and isn't anymore (assuming we even saw it in the 2 different states, with a period inbetween where we did not observe it).
I think this is a good example of failing at theory of mind. Not just at being aware that others may think differently to you, but in thinking that reality always conforms to your expectations. Just because you have been there at the falling of a tree(s), or had it described to you, does not mean that any trees, the falling of which you are not present at, are all going to behave in the same way. The best you can have is a theory, that based on previous observations, trees may fall and make sounds while people are not present, but you will never be able to confirm this.
As for me, I think that when Shrodinger puts cats in boxes, they get transferred to a parallel universe where they are big enough to push over trees, except they do it very carefully so they don't make any noise 
04 Aug 2010, 1:19 pm
04 Aug 2010, 5:33 pm
04 Aug 2010, 5:39 pm
04 Aug 2010, 5:56 pm
Yes, we have established that right out of the gate. Read my next to last paragraph in my original post.
And now I will re-iterate in case anyone else did not read that far: I see fit to assume that sound does NOT require a receiver, because IF it did, the riddle would answer itself "no." Think about it.
I've been thinking about this, and I'm not sure I agree. How, exactly, would the question had answered itself if the sound wave needed a receiver in order to be converted into sound?
Because.... it says "and no one was around to hear it...."
In other words, no receiver was present to perceive the sound. The riddle establishes that. Therefore if a receiver is required in order for a sound to be produced, then the riddle itself has told you that no sound was produced, because "no one was around to hear it."
Again, where is the confusion coming from?
I'm not confused. I just didn't get what you were saying.
04 Aug 2010, 6:09 pm
Just remember, to make a scientific deduction based on data analysis, you MUST assume that your data is accurate, because if any part of the question (i.e. data analyzed) is a falsehood, then your results are contaminated.
In other words, to soundly answer a question which represents a realistic scenario, as this one does, you must assume that every part (i.e. each clause) of it is true. 
04 Aug 2010, 6:17 pm
05 Aug 2010, 10:09 am
I think this is a good example of failing at theory of mind. Not just at being aware that others may think differently to you, but in thinking that reality always conforms to your expectations. Just because you have been there at the falling of a tree(s), or had it described to you, does not mean that any trees, the falling of which you are not present at, are all going to behave in the same way. The best you can have is a theory, that based on previous observations, trees may fall and make sounds while people are not present, but you will never be able to confirm this.
As for me, I think that when Shrodinger puts cats in boxes, they get transferred to a parallel universe where they are big enough to push over trees, except they do it very carefully so they don't make any noise
I don't know if anyone read my first post, but the main idea behind the question, is not actually to answer it, but rather to become aware of what you experience and how limited your experience of the universe ultimately is. Only that which you experience becomes a reality, however as human beings we are intelligent enough to know that what exists goes beyond our ability to experience. At this very instant the universe is expanding. But we cannot experience it. Does that mean that the universe doesn't exist or cannot expand? No. It just teaches us that our ability to perceive something, is not an absolute when it comes to saying what, when and how, do things occur or exist.
Here's a question. Let's say hypothetically that you live in Antarctica and have never ever seen a tree. And if someone, an outsider, asked you "if a tree fell in the forest, what sound would it make?", how would you as someone who has no idea of a tree, answer that?
06 Aug 2010, 12:55 am
Well all I can say is Thank God for YouTube!!
