What's your opinion on the military?

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1. http://www.slate.com/id/2107972/

(Please go ahead and do any sort of research into this and you'll find that Saddam fully intended to build WMD as soon as sanctions were lifted)
2. I'm so glad that all you care about is America. Exactly how do you feel about North Korea test-launching missiles in the direction of Japan?
3. Please provide anything that supports this claim at all.



Funny story: Without a military, you can't defend yourself against the countries that ARE your enemies. Japan has almost no military, and relies on our military support. Your claim (above) that North Korea is "pretty much harmless (to us)" shows the problem with having no military, and relying on the fact that most countries are our allies (not to mention the fact that we were Britain's ally before WWI and WWII, but it still took us years to get involved there). Japan only manages to exist with such a small military force because 1. They're such an economic power (we are not) and 2. America is bound to protect them. (Edit2: Aside from that, a country can easily go from ally to non-ally pretty quickly)



Not evidence, just random accusations (in fact, this is true of most of your "arguments"). Aside from that, are you saying that America fixed the elections? That's awfully conspiracy theorist, don't you think?

As far as the national debt is concerned: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart

Unless you plan on completely eliminating the military (yes, I know you're all for it, but we've established that that wouldn't work at all), it wouldn't make enough of a difference.

Furthermore, it's been made quite obvious that, even with the military spending we have, we can still have a budget surplus. The problem with the national debt is not the spending so much as the lack of economic education. See, if politicians make good economic decisions, they immediately get voted out of office. Whereas ones that make poor economic decisions that create an illusion of perfection (you know, aside from the national debt) are kept in office.

An interesting point in Taoism is that Lao Tzu was very much a pacifist, but he was a practical pacifist. He advised using military for defense, rather than aggression (please don't comment on this, as it's quite clear that you have no understanding of military strategy), but never claimed that having or using a military is bad. In fact, most people that have actually studied the history of warfare actually recognize that, in some cases, warfare is not only necessary, but in some cases, the only correct path (better that I should die, or even kill, than to be ruled by a tyrant).

Your problem seems to stem from:

1. You care only for yourself and your own interests (evidence: Your comment on North Korea)
2. You imagine the worst possible motives and automatically assume that they're true
3. You have a poor understanding of history (Edit: Actually, do you even know the history of the national debt?)

I am not strictly speaking a pacifist, I am however oposed to militarism, I would like to see my own country opt for a civil militia/passive resistance trained populace based 'armed neutrality' I think every nation should be able to defend it's own space but should not have aggressive potential as this tends to end up being abused by the power elite from time to time.

peace j

Not true. The JSDF is a strong military force. In 2009 Japan was 7th in list of military expenditures by nation. They have about ~240,000 active military personnel and ~60,000 in reserve. They are very well trained. Japan, unlike some of the US's allies, also has a respectable domestic arms production. They use their own designs for almost everything, and they are pretty solid technologically. Their fleet is also the second largest navy in the region and one of the largest in the world overall, also using domestically designed warships. Their air force is also pretty decent with a few solid Mitsubishi and Kawasaki designed aircraft in addition to some US designs. They can definitely hold their own against North Korea, that uses a lot of really old Soviet & PRC tech. The Japanese also are launching their own regional GPS system in the near future

I stand corrected. I was under the impression that the JSDF was much smaller than that.

Still, that doesn't mean that we should let N. Korea develop nuclear weapons (Edit: Protip: It doesn't matter how strong your military is. If your enemy uses a nuclear weapon, people will die. Lots of people, in fact).

I remember hearing about people, after N. Korea test fired a missile in the direction of Japan, saying that we should give N. Korea nuclear capabilities.

Really? How moronic do you have to be?

I think the military are deluded people who believe that starting wars brings peace or they are people who have few other options in this $h!tty economy

Grammar Nazi moment. Sorry.

And no one said starting wars brings peace...

I'm somewhat against the military. My dad is in it, and to say the least it definitely sucks. I totally agree with the fact that we really aren't under any serious threat. But as an aspie obsessed with war and the strategies and technologies that come with it, I can understand why people think its cool to shoot guns and stuff. I'd hate to say it, but war will be both the upbringing and downfall of mankind. Would we really have put a man on the moon without the cold war taking place? But had the cold war have heated up, would any of us still be here today?

Of course. Nuclear weapons are terrible, genocidal weapons, its very hard to get around that. Even 'limited nuclear war' (using nuclear weapons only for military operations and not against civilian targets) has terrible after effects due to the obvious radiation. This can affect countries not even involved, just with the bad luck of being downwind. Unfortunately, North Korea does have nuclear weapons, and I have heard Japan has started thinking about building their own 'missile defense' shield. They can definitely do it, as they have a good space agency as well.

That's crazy though, where the hell did you hear someone say that we should give the N. Koreans nuclear capabilities? Was it a N. Korean internet agent provocateur ?

@ Vigilans,

I presumed a typo here and that they meant South Korea??

peace j

Nope. They actually claimed that giving them nuclear capabilities would make them not want to fire nuclear missiles at Japan. Yes, the super-anti-war people can really get that stupid.

The real crappy part about N. Korea being aggressive towards Japan is that they know that the Japanese can't do anything about it. When we realized that Iraq was going to start building nuclear weapons, we invaded. Japan can't do that to N. Korea.

I'm having a hard time taking you seriously. I may be against violence, but this is so wrong it's hilarious.

What the hell were they smoking?? (where do I get some...?) I picture a group of hippies in a drum circle saying things like that

Japan might do something about it if their hand were forced. The whole Iraq WMD thing is a bit different though, as I consider the US response somewhat inept. A few decades earlier the Israelis effectively neutered the Iraqi nuclear program when they launched a clandestine air strike that destroyed their first nuclear reactor that was capable of producing weapons grade uranium. They did it very quickly and early, thus preventing the reactor's destruction from irradiating regions around it.
North Korea now is a nuclear armed state so the game changes quite a bit

People can't be trusted to live in peace, thus there's a need for a military. Police is for the people that cant live in peace locally and small groups. The military is for people who cant live in peace that rise to power and govern larger groups or a country.

Also we need those soldiers to protect us once the cyborgs rise up!

World history shows that military force is not necessary when we have enough trade links.

Look at the USA: does each state have bombs aimed at the other states? No, because there are so many links that bombing your neighbor means you bomb your uncle, your food supplier, your best friend.

This does not require a strong federal government. I live in Europe and for centuries every nation fought every other nation. England and France were notorious enemies. But now we're the biggest trading partners, we own property in each other's country, we intermarry, and going to war would only hurt ourselves. This is not because the European Union has a big army, it's purely because of trade.

This does not require a similar culture either. We may fear China, but they would never go to war with us because they don't need to: trade achieves their objectives more effectively. And we would not go to war with them because we need their trade links too much.

In the long term, economic power is greater than military power because it does not rely on periodically destroying your asset base. Trade means you cannot kill your enemy without killing yourself.

The existence of a military is a temporary step, a sign that we have not yet grown up.

I do think we basically don't have free elections because only two parties are overwhelmingly advertised and mostly offer the same thing. As for North Korea, I think what we and Japan should do is encourage them to overthrow Kim Jong Il, by refusing to support him anymore. Violence is not always the answer. Of course I care more about the whole world than about just America. It's the military nuts who only care about "number one".

because it's the government that always lets down the troops after the troops have served them.