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ROFL @ thinking the wild bee population will return if there's more demand for domesticated honey bees


I *just* perfected this the other day- this is quite literally the first thing I've made on my own in the kitchen that didn't involve a microwave:

1 large red onion
2 avg. (small apple)-sized tomatoes
1 lemon
3 jalapenos
1 bell pepper
1 bulb of garlic

Dice all ingredients save for the lemon, combine in container with lemon's juice; shake w/ lid or stir until mixture is homogenous.
Pour ingredients a small amount at a time into blender, tamping down onto blades, and tap "pulse" button on lowest setting,
pouring out the salsa and adding more to the blender when the consistency is as-desired. (Otherwise, at least with my blender, pouring everything in and firing up the blender means liquid at the bottom and untouched ingredients at the top.)

This doesn't make very much- it lasted me less than a night.


That's the best I got.

When I was a vegetarian (several years ago--before reverting back to omnivore ) I used to eat that kind of cheese. I did actually LOVE that kind. It tasted quite like normal cheese to me. It is the soy-based and rice-based cheese--the texture of it is SO disgusting! And the taste too!

Don't those honey bees go out and then come back? Wouldn't that help pollinate surrounding plants? Either way, I am not giving up honey right now. It is enough trying to give up everything else without doing it gradually. Thanks for the recipe!

I haven't responded to every post because I am hoping this thread gets long and I won't be able to anyway.

But, ALL of the recipes given sound GREAT! I am going to try them all at some point, and when I do, I will post here and let you know what I think. Feel free to do the same!

I just did some brief research on honey, and I read that modern beekeeping encourages an overproduction of honey through selective breeding so that some can be taken. These bees do help pollinate crops. So for now, I maintain my current position of eating honey. Preferably I will someday eat it exclusively through small-scale farmers.

I'm not sure what "Domesticated honey bees" means, but I've worked at places that bring in a few beehives to help pollinate or just to help plants, and recently the honey I get comes from an apple orchard.

I don't know how accurate this is, but I've read from several sources that there is really no such thing as domesticated honeybees. I mean, their hives might be moved around, but they still go out and pollinate just like other bees. Another reason I maintain my current position on honey--as long as it is ethical collecting.

I am making this tonight! I am going to make a few additions (I love a variety of veggies in my chili), but will be using the black beans instead of kidney beans and using your spices. I will let you know how it turns out!

By definition, you are not a vegan. So you are a liar.

Sorry to rain on your parade but as someone who has worked in a honey house and known seceral bee keepers who i interrogated as only an aspie can I will share the following.

Honey bees in New Zealand are generally used to polinate crops for a couple of months each year and if the bees are also used to produce honey the most on to it beekeepers will use say 1/3 of their hives each year for polination and 'rest' them from this task on rotation as it can severely harm the hives depending on crop and conditions [population health and numbers].
Those used for honey production are generally [non 'organic' operations] put out in very early spring adjacent to terrain containing plant eccosystems dominated by target nectars [nectar is what bees turn into honey]. They may be moved or they may be left in situ until the end of summer depending on location [native forest will provide a cascade of different nectar types and the bees will actually store the honeys produced in cells that can be differentiated].
At the end of summer the hives will be visited during the night when the bees are efectively inactive and the beekepers will remove the boxes containing the honey combs, during this process there will be a minimum of several dozen bees killed by crushing and hundreds of bees will refuse to abandon the boxes as they are attempting to 'save' honey from the percieved fire that the pacifying smoke has fooled them into fearing. As the boxes are transported away many of these bees will abandon the boxes and become lost and die homeless.
Back at the honey house the combs are removed and capped and then spun and the honey extracted, the majority of these remaining bees will be killed during this process having endured days of stress.
Now as the honey the bees have stored for winter is now missing the bees will be fed refined sugar to get them through the winter, this is lacking in the health giving wonders that make honey so attractive to us and the hive will be vulnerable to disease and population will drop by a larger degree than in a comparative 'natural' cycle or organic operation, chemicals and antibiotics will be used.

This is by nescessity a brief and NZ specific overview, natural cycle beekeepers are few and far between as leaving enough honey on the hive to maintain it through winter eats into profits and that is anathema to the capitalist ideal and keeping the bank manager happy

Choose your source carefully if the value of bee lives matter to you if not enjoy one of natures true wonder foods.

peace j

Regarding protein concerns.

Adults don't need as much protein as meat marketers would like you to be scared into believing and believe it or not all grains nuts and seeds contain varying amounts of protein the secret to unlocking them is in food combining.

A typical traditional Indian meal will contain some sort of pulse or bean in combination with rice or another grain [wheaten chapatti for eg] this will supply all eight of the essential basic amino acids needed, quite simply and enjoyably.
Simple rules like not having too many rich foods in combination [protien rich] will allow your digestion to optimise what it does take in instead of passing large quantities of goodness un accessed due to acid/alkali conflicts [that sense of bloatedness/gassyness/acid reflux is a sure indicator].

I have been a primarily vegan vegetarian for over 25 years and eat like an asian ascetic 90% of the time, I am in excellent health so I feel confident in my information.

peace j

Vegan cookies!

Giant Bakery-Style Double-Chocolate Chip Cookies (Yields 8 to 10 large cookies, or many smaller ones)
Ingredients:
1/2 cup dairy-free chocolate chips (for melting)
1/2 cup soy or almond milk
2/3 cup canola oil
...2 tsp vanilla
1 1/3 cups sugar
2 Tbsp cornstarch
2 cups flour
2/3 cup cocoa
2 tsp baking powder
1/4 tsp salt
2/3 cup dairy-free chocolate chips
1. Preheat the oven to 350 degrees. Melt chocolate chips with 1/3 cup of the soy/almond milk in a microwave or a glass dish placed in a sauce pan of boiling water. Pour the melted mixture into a large bowl, then add the rest of the milk, oil, vanilla, sugar, and cornstarch. Add in the (unsifted) flour, cocoa, baking powder, and salt.. Stir until thoroughly mixed, and then add the chocolate chips.
2. Grab handfuls of cookie dough and flatten them out to be a little thicker than 1/2 inch on a cookie sheet lined with parchment paper.
3. Bake for about 15 minutes (less time for smaller cookies), or until the edges are very firm and the centers look chewy and are soft to the touch. Let them rest for a minute or so before transferring them to a cooling rack.

Hey wait a second, these don't have any egg-replacers...sucess!
I want to try these out, if I can ever get over my bug thing.

And you are rude. Some vegans make the choice to eat honey. That is their opinion and their decision. I really do not care if you except. I am a vegan to myself and to almost everyone else I know. Sometimes I am NEVER good enough for certain people. I would rather use my energy for something more useful than trying to please the unpleaseable.

Just to say, I agree... I don't eat animal products and avoid animal products in all other areas of my life (cosmetics etc, only to the extent that's practical), but I still eat honey. I don't see any ehtical concerns with honey, so I still consider myself Vegan.

Information I copied and pasted from a vegan website: http://www.compassionatespirit.com/is-honey-vegan.htm

There’s another significant issue concerning bees, and that is their role as pollinators. Domestically managed bee colonies have dropped by half since 1945. Feral honeybees have essentially disappeared in the United States. The value of bee pollination for both humans and wildlife is hard to quantify but is probably immense. One-third of U. S. crops depend on pollinators; some plants on the endangered species list are endangered precisely because they lack pollinators.

Beekeepers now migrate from place to place in the country performing pollination services for farmers, which helps human food supply but masks the impact of the decline of honeybees on wild plants (and the animals which depend on the plants). Beekeepers may make just as much or more money from pollination services as from selling honey. One emerging practice among hobbyist beekeepers is "top bar" hives, which produce much less honey but also requires much less disturbance (and killing) of bees.

In any event, the use of bees as pollinators raises a significant problem for those objecting to honey on the grounds that bee-keeping kills insects. To be consistent, one would also need to object to all bee-keeping, and then how are we going to pollinate our crops, and how are wild plants on which wild animals depend going to be pollinated?

The second problem is the one that Dr. Greger is more concerned about: the "consistency" issue. If vegans are against killing bees, and they are making such a big deal about it that they are including it in their definition of "vegan," then does that mean that we should strive to stop killing all insects? Why do we object to the rather small matter of bee-keeping and ignore the huge matter of pesticide use? Would we refuse to eat a vegan meal if some of the ingredients were not organic? Would we declare that vegans who occasionally ate a meal with non-organic ingredients were not "true vegans"? If not, why not?


***I am doing my part. Many animals will not be tortured because I am not eating them or drinking their milk or eating their eggs. I will eat ethical honey from small-scale farmers. I am doing as much as I possibly can to help the planet I live on at this point in time. To rudely call me a liar and infer that I am not doing enough is just ridiculous! Like I said, some people are unpleaseable. This is not a debate thread. If you would like to open one up, feel free. This thread is for recipes!***