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"Language testing" to travel on airline

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hanyo
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12 Mar 2012, 8:39 am

StuartN wrote:
LANGUAGE TEST: ENGLISH

1. Please write your forenames and family name in capital letters.
2. Please underline the numbers twelve and sixty-five:
12 18 24 37 41 49 57 65 73 89
3. Please write down in the following order: Your date of birth, place of birth and today's date.
4. Please point to the last page and to your photograph in the document before you.
5. Please show me any cash you have in your possession.
6. Please skecth a ladder and a triangle.
7. Please read out the script on the page of your document indicated.
8. What is your travel desrination?
9. Please write the following numbers in figures:
Eight hundred and seventy-seven, four hundred and twenty-one.

Date/Place:


That seems weird. Why sketch a ladder and a triangle?

What happens if you fail? People could fail this for multiple reasons.

Weird stuff like this and how they search people and restrict what you can carry on the plane is why I'll probably never fly again.



Sylkat
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12 Mar 2012, 8:47 am

I assume that this will create a bonanza for European train companies.
The only thing that big corporations pay attention to is money. They lose profits, they change policy.
If people start using trains whenever possible, even at a cost of time spent, the Powers That Be will get the message. Especially if each time someone buys a train ticket instead of an airplane ticket, an e-mail picture of the ticket and an explanation is sent to the airlines' Customer Service websites.

Sylkat :twisted:



StuartN
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12 Mar 2012, 10:02 am

hanyo wrote:
That seems weird. Why sketch a ladder and a triangle?

What happens if you fail? People could fail this for multiple reasons.


If you fail, or if you refuse to take the test, then you are refused boarding. There is then a scheme for legitimate passengers to claim against "refused boarding" (if and when they get home, using the Aer Lingus website).

I have AS and I would have found this test extremely hard under the circumstances that they happened in and, although I would probably manage it, it would be embarrassingly, humiliatingly slow ordeal in full view of the other 180 people in the queue behind us. It really confirms my worst fears about travel, strangers, authority figures and so on.



Tequila
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12 Mar 2012, 10:13 am

Some of that stuff is mental. And anyway, it's discrimination considering that a) there is more than one official language even in Ireland itself and the EU freedom of movement laws (not negating the fact that there are 26 other countries in the EU, where English will not be widely spoken in many areas).



Tequila
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12 Mar 2012, 10:23 am

StuartN: Is that your wife? She sounds very intelligent indeed. :)



Sylkat
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12 Mar 2012, 10:30 am

Dear Tequila, I thought that Ireland had two official Languages: Gaelic and English..
I also thought that a passport was all anybody needed to cross borders legally.This whole thing really sounds like there's lawsuit potential!

Sylkat :roll:



Tequila
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12 Mar 2012, 10:36 am

Sylkat wrote:
Dear Tequila, I thought that Ireland had two official Languages: Gaelic and English.


The official languages of Ireland (the Republic of Ireland) are Irish - which is the first official language! - and English. Irish is very much a minority language even within Ireland though, and not many Irish people speak Irish in day to day life. Most likely including the bozos who harassed this woman.

Quote:
I also thought that a passport was all anybody needed to cross borders legally.This whole thing really sounds like there's lawsuit potential!


There is absolutely no requirement or need whatsoever for people to be able to speak English or any other language to cross an EU/EEA/CH border - none. As is mentioned in the article and earlier in the thread, there is a diaspora that hold Greek passports but can't actually speak the language.



StuartN
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12 Mar 2012, 10:44 am

Sylkat wrote:
Dear Tequila, I thought that Ireland had two official Languages: Gaelic and English..
I also thought that a passport was all anybody needed to cross borders legally.This whole thing really sounds like there's lawsuit potential!


Yes, we have two official languages, Irish and English. (People prefer to call the first language Irish or Gailge, but not Gaelic). The test was not offered in Irish, which would actually be a legal requirement.

All the legal advice we have had is that it is unlawful, but getting the policy highlighted and stopped seems more important than a personal lawsuit.

Tequila wrote:
Is that your wife? She sounds very intelligent indeed


Yes, PhD in electronic engineering, has an opinion on everything and is always right. (Pretty, too).



Tequila
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12 Mar 2012, 10:53 am

StuartN wrote:
The test was not offered in Irish, which would actually be a legal requirement.


What would they have done had the Greek passport holder not been able to speak English, only Irish? I do believe there are a few people in the Gaeltacht who can't speak English, only Irish, although they tend to be old folk.

StuartN wrote:
All the legal advice we have had is that it is unlawful, but getting the policy highlighted and stopped seems more important than a personal lawsuit.


You have the right idea. A personal lawsuit would be a waste of time I think. Putting consumer pressure on the airline sounds like a better option. Aside from anything else, if the documents are genuinely in order, the language that the passport holder speaks is irrelevant.

Have you bothered with Politics.ie? They might be interested in your story if it isn't already being covered there. I'm a member there.

StuartN wrote:
Yes, PhD in electronic engineering, has an opinion on everything and is always right. (Pretty, too).


She sounds far, far too rich for my blood (I wouldn't want to be her opponent!) but she comes across very well indeed.



StuartN
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12 Mar 2012, 11:18 am

Tequila wrote:
What would they have done had the Greek passport holder not been able to speak English, only Irish? I do believe there are a few people in the Gaeltacht who can't speak English, only Irish, although they tend to be old folk.


I have met a Greek couple who speak fluent Irish, having learnt while studying folk music in Galway. Neither speak English well. It seems to me that it is necessary to be able to read and write both languages for the tester to be able to match the two sets of answers, unless the tester also speaks Greek.

In their first non-apology they said that Italian and Portuguese passports were also high-risk, so they are picking out most of Southern Europe.

Tequila wrote:
Have you bothered with Politics.ie? They might be interested in your story if it isn't already being covered there. I'm a member there.


I haven't - I tried Boards and it got shifted from Politics to Consumer Rights to Recreation / Travel, where it hasn't been read much. I don't see a thread on any other discussion forum, but it would be great if you start one!

Tequila wrote:
She sounds far, far too rich for my blood (I wouldn't want to be her opponent!) but she comes across very well indeed.


Our kids say she can be "scary" and she makes their new boyfriends very nervous. And she has put up with me and my peculiarities for 30 years.



Tequila
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12 Mar 2012, 11:26 am

I don't really want to do it myself lest I get linked back to this place (let's just say I'm on a part of the forum that is somewhat, er, controversial). I do think that they would be interested in your story though.

StuartN wrote:
I have met a Greek couple who speak fluent Irish, having learnt while studying folk music in Galway.


I bet there are quite a few cases of people not being able to speak English well whilst learning a foreign language in an English-speaking country.

StuartN wrote:
In their first non-apology they said that Italian and Portuguese passports were also high-risk, so they are picking out most of Southern Europe.


I bet Spanish passports would be included there too.

StuartN wrote:
It seems to me that it is necessary to be able to read and write both languages for the tester to be able to match the two sets of answers, unless the tester also speaks Greek.


Indeed. The test is utterly useless and worthless if the tester can't even speak the language they're testing a person in!

StuartN wrote:
Our kids say she can be "scary" and she makes the new boyfriends very nervous.


Huh?! ;)

StuartN wrote:
And she has put up with me and my peculiarities for 30 years.


She sounds like a keeper then. I think I'd probably find her a bit intimidating if I met her. ;)



StuartN
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12 Mar 2012, 11:43 am

Tequila wrote:
StuartN wrote:
Our kids say she can be "scary" and she makes the new boyfriends very nervous.


Huh?! ;)


I was slow in editing my error - she scares our kids' boyfriends (not our new boyfriends).



Tequila
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12 Mar 2012, 11:45 am

StuartN wrote:
[not our new boyfriends).


Huh?! Again?!

This is just weird, unless you can't see the, erm, connotations.



StuartN
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12 Mar 2012, 11:58 am

Tequila wrote:
Huh?! Again?!
This is just weird, unless you can't see the, erm, connotations.


I was trying to answer your first Huh?! and seem to have misunderstood it.

There is a thread on Politics.ie with a great title: http://www.politics.ie/forum/transport/ ... iling.html and I will follow that. There are a few Greek blogs picking it up now.



Tequila
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12 Mar 2012, 12:01 pm

StuartN wrote:
I was trying to answer your first Huh?! and seem to have misunderstood it.


If you've misunderstood it then you aren't aware of the connotations I was getting at (that can't be discussed here), so it doesn't matter.

Quote:
There is a thread on Politics.ie with a great title: http://www.politics.ie/forum/transport/ ... iling.html and I will follow that. There are a few Greek blogs picking it up now.


Most excellent! :)



StuartN
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12 Mar 2012, 1:35 pm

Tequila wrote:
Most excellent! :)


Some famous guy on Twitter picked it up and she is being interviewed right now by Το Βημα (The Step or The Tribune), a centre-left national paper in Greece.