What Different Kinds of Privilege?

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Wolfram87
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11 Jul 2019, 5:54 am

cyberdad wrote:
Starts with "W"


Good job illustrating how asinine your insistance on a distinction is.


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kraftiekortie
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11 Jul 2019, 6:33 am

Martin Luther King was proactive, rather than reactive.

He didn’t let “white privilege” keep him down.



cyberdad
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11 Jul 2019, 6:37 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Starts with "W"


Good job illustrating how asinine your insistance on a distinction is.

Actually white privilege is an accepted social psychological phenomenon, racial privilege is something Fnord made up to be neutral...



cyberdad
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11 Jul 2019, 6:38 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Martin Luther King was proactive, rather than reactive.

He didn’t let “white privilege” keep him down.

Explain that to Wolfy...



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11 Jul 2019, 6:58 am

KT67 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The expansion of the definition of privilege that says you are automatically privileged because you are "born this way" was a mistake.

Being born white or a man or cisgender decreases your odds of being stereotyped and discriminated against, it does not guarantee this won't happen to you or will happen less. This definition looks at the problem ass-backward. It is not a privilege to be not discriminated against, that is how it is supposed to be. The problem is discrimination is more likely against minorities


True.

But it's about the society we live in at the moment. How we navigate it. Probably hard for some autistic people to understand because it's about social roles.

We need to get to a point where it doesn't matter who's privileged or not.

I think I only have white privilege when I'm in parts of England (my own experience living various places). But 50 years ago I wouldn't have had it there. So things can improve. My dad's family got treated bad and esp bad in the 70s and 80s so it can get worse as well as better. (you know that thing where Arabs are assumed to be terrorists? That hasn't always been Arabs treated that way in the UK)

I hate how global it is spoken about because of the internet. How automatic it is spoken about. That's not true, people live in specific societies around the world. Pale skin doesn't create white privilege, a society which preferences everyone with pale skin does. A society where 'what school did you go to' is a controversial question or where they judge you for your surname starting with 'o' or ending with 'stein' doesn't have universal white privilege. There is also colourism in the black community.

It was 30 years ago yesterday Rangers signed their very first Catholic player since the 1920s, they got away with that because it was common practice not to hire Catholics in the mid 20th century because they were assumed to be of Irish or Italian or Polish descent.

Got to agree, the sub category of white privilege is specific to certain places at particular points in time. The idea alone is subjective to lived reality and it changes.



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11 Jul 2019, 7:03 am

King went against the prevailing grain.

He did not give in to it.

Thurgood Marshall effected change through his insistence on universal, fundamental HUMAN rights. He insisted on equal footing amongst all people. He made use of the prevailing “white privilege” system, rather than concede to it. He didn’t place people apart based upon fundamental and ingrained “privilege.”

If he did that in 1954, he would have been laughed out of court.



Wolfram87
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11 Jul 2019, 7:08 am

cyberdad wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Starts with "W"


Good job illustrating how asinine your insistance on a distinction is.

Actually white privilege is an accepted social psychological phenomenon, racial privilege is something Fnord made up to be neutral...


So your problem is that Fnords list isn't biased in your preferred direction?


cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Martin Luther King was proactive, rather than reactive.

He didn’t let “white privilege” keep him down.

Explain that to Wolfy...


Not sure why you think I need this explained to me.


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cyberdad
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11 Jul 2019, 7:15 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
King went against the prevailing grain.

He did not give in to it.

Thurgood Marshall effected change through his insistence on universal, fundamental HUMAN rights. He insisted on equal footing amongst all people. He made use of the prevailing “white privilege” system, rather than concede to it. He didn’t place people apart based upon fundamental and ingrained “privilege.”

If he did that in 1954, he would have been laughed out of court.


One is a concept (privilege) another (white privilege) is an actual phenomenon responsible for health disparity in non-whites
https://theconversation.com/how-anti-bl ... alth-99005

It's also recognised here in Australia for explaining why aboriginal people have shorter lives
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5496226/



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11 Jul 2019, 7:17 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
So your problem is that Fnords list isn't biased in your preferred direction?

Basically there is no such thing as racial privilege...Fnord made it up

In psychology its referred to as "white privilege"



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11 Jul 2019, 7:18 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Of course, I understand discrimination. I understand it very well. I am in both oppressed and “privileged” groups.

We must stamp out all forms of it.

But I don’t believe the idea of “privilege” will inspire those who are supposedly “privileged” into action.


Well yes.

But sometimes people don't know they benefit from it.

They might be better off without the word privilege but just 'did you know... affects some people'.

Even then they might disagree. I was told that oak panelled, traditional libraries scare working class people away because they see them as 'not for them'. I was learning to be a librarian, a child of a teacher. But I knew my dad (from lower working class background) much preferred those sorts of libraries to the talk over everyone types.

Also some disabilities clash with others. Surely the needs of some not privileged groups, it's the same. We were told at a neurodiversity thing not to clap because of people's sound sensitivities, to wave our arms in the air instead. But if one of the speakers had been visually impaired, this would have meant they didn't get a round of applause.


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kraftiekortie
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11 Jul 2019, 7:24 am

There was “racial privilege” in Rwanda before 1994.

The minority Tutsi thought themselves a superior “race” to the majority “Hutu.”

Even though both groups are “black” based on western racial concepts.

The result was genocide.



Wolfram87
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11 Jul 2019, 7:26 am

Great, so was it the Hutu or the Tutsi that had White priviledge?


cyberdad wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
So your problem is that Fnords list isn't biased in your preferred direction?

Basically there is no such thing as racial privilege...Fnord made it up

In psychology its referred to as "white privilege"


This seems to be some really convoluted way to de-legitimize language by way of appeal to authority. If one were to describe male and female privilege as "sexual/gendered privilege", you'd then turn around and say "that doesn't exist"?


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Last edited by Wolfram87 on 11 Jul 2019, 7:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

kraftiekortie
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11 Jul 2019, 7:29 am

Yes, there are obvious disparities, like what Cyberdad mentioned in regard to the Aboriginals. It would be foolish to assume otherwise.



KT67
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11 Jul 2019, 7:31 am

Racial privilege would be a better word for it than white privilege.

Also accepting that race is made up and therefore different cultures have different versions of it.


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The Grand Inquisitor
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11 Jul 2019, 7:35 am

Health Privilege. Someone with a clean bill of health is certainly more privileged than someone who struggles with health issues.

Privilege Privilege. Someone with a high amount of these privileges is privileged over someone with a low amount



KT67
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11 Jul 2019, 7:44 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
Great, so was it the Hutu or the Tutsi that had White priviledge?


cyberdad wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
So your problem is that Fnords list isn't biased in your preferred direction?

Basically there is no such thing as racial privilege...Fnord made it up


I assume we don't know but they do. They wouldn't frame it in that way but they'd know who was the occupier, who was the occupied, who was the majority, who was the minority etc. The ins and outs of it.

In Iraq, it's the non-Kurds who have what would be akin to white privilege.


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