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Fnord
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11 Jun 2020, 9:02 am

In the 1960s Cleve Backster, an interrogation specialist with the CIA (Note: Not a Biologist), conducted experiments that allegedly led him to believe that plants can communicate with other lifeforms. Backster's interest in the subject began in February 1966 when he tried to measure the rate at which water rises from a philodendron's root into its leaves. Because one function of a polygraph or 'lie detector' is to measure electrical resistance (which would decrease when the plant was watered), Backster attached a polygraph to one of the plant's leaves. Backster claimed that, "the tracing began to show a pattern typical of the response you get when you subject a human to emotional stimulation of short duration".

However, Backster did not account for electrolysis occurring between the electrodes and the plants.

In 1975, K. A. Horowitz, D. C. Lewis and E. L. Gasteiger published an article in Science giving their results when repeating one of Backster's effects -- plant response to the killing of brine shrimp in boiling water. The researchers grounded the plants to reduce electrical interference and rinsed them to remove dust particles. As a control three of five pipettes contained brine shrimp while the remaining two only had water: the pipettes were delivered to the boiling water at random. This investigation used a total of 60 brine shrimp deliveries to boiling water while Backster's had used 13. Positive correlations did not occur at a rate great enough to be considered statistically significant. Other controlled experiments that attempted to replicate Backster's findings have also produced negative results.

In other words, Backster's alleged results could not be repeated.

Botanist Arthur Galston and physiologist Clifford L. Slayman who investigated Backster's claims wrote:

• "There is no objective scientific evidence for the existence of such complex behaviour in plants. The recent spate of popular literature on 'plant consciousness' appears to have been triggered by 'experiments' with a lie detector, subsequently reported and embellished in a book called The Secret Life of Plants. Unfortunately, when scientists in the discipline of plant physiology attempted to repeat the experiments, using either identical or improved equipment, the results were uniformly negative. Further investigation has shown that the original observations arose from defective measuring procedures."

John M. Kmetz noted that Backster had not used proper controls in his experiments. When controls were used, no plant reactions to thoughts or threats were observed.

Later experiments with an EEG have failed to detect anything. The conclusion is that the results were not repeatable, and that Backster's "theory" and the results of his experiments are simply not true.



Mountain Goat
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11 Jun 2020, 10:52 am

Does hay get hayfever?


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Skilpadde
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11 Jun 2020, 11:14 am

goldfish21 wrote:
I disagree with Fnord on this one.

I haven’t heard of the shrimp study he referenced, but I have read of others - mostly in one of the most fascinating books I’ve ever read: “The Secret Life of Plants.” A couple mentions in there about plants feeling pain and other emotions. Also, there are studies showing plants communicate with each other in various ways including the release of chemicals to warn of danger or through vast networks of underground mycelium beneath the forest floor, and with people almost telepathically, and also about how they organize themselves in sort of social hierarchy structures within forests with older stronger trees protecting others, plants sharing water/nutrients.. heck, trees even have a “pulse,” of their vascular systems that they control via their limbs’ motions to pump water up and throughout their extremities.

Plants are a lot more evolved than most of us realize. They’ve been here a lot longer than us, after all.

Yeah, I also think there are a lot more to plants than we think. Isn't the well known chemical warning they have itself a good indication they are not as simple as some people think.

I've read “The Secret Life of Plants” and it was very interesting. The shared nutrient and how they can actually cooperate show they're likely more than we give them credit for.


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lostonearth35
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11 Jun 2020, 11:32 am

If you worry that everything around you can feel pain and suffering you will drive yourself insane. It's best not to think about it.



Fnord
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11 Jun 2020, 12:46 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
If you worry that everything around you can feel pain and suffering you will drive yourself insane.  It's best not to think about it.
Unless you're trying to drive a vegan insane, and then it's worth the effort.



Syd
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26 Jun 2020, 6:11 pm

Tulips can talk. After all, they're two lips.



blackicmenace
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26 Jun 2020, 6:23 pm

^ I liked the cactus. :)


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LunaticCentruroides
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26 Jun 2020, 6:49 pm

They don't have a central nervous system, so NO.