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Should men 'man up' ?

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Fnord
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17 Mar 2021, 7:26 pm

Blue_Blake wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Actually, as I have grown older, my operative philosophies have become "Don't get angry.  Get even." and "Revenge is a dish best served cold."
Why?
Bullies often expect an immediate response.  Attacking them gives them an excuse of "self-defense".  Crying and whining gives them an excuse to attack further.  Remaining calm confuses them.

After that, the best way to retaliate is wait for the most opportune moment to simply step out of their way and remain silent while they make the biggest, most embarrassing blunder of their lives.


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Last edited by Fnord on 17 Mar 2021, 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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17 Mar 2021, 7:28 pm

cberg wrote:
Fnord wrote:
cberg wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Actually, as I have grown older, my operative philosophies have become "Don't get angry.  Get even." and "Revenge is a dish best served cold."
Please don't associate the rest of us with this variety of crap attitude.
Please tell us how lacking this variety of crap attitude has made your outlook on life any better than mine.
I don't have to anonymously give others s**t online behind their backs to feel like myself.
Good for you!  I am sure that giving s**t openly and directly has done wonders for your self-esteem and overall success.  Carry on!

:D


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cberg
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17 Mar 2021, 7:42 pm

At least that's honest.


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KT67
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18 Mar 2021, 5:42 am

Anger is still anger.

Righteous anger is fine whenever it's served up, hot or cold.

Anger because you cannot bring yourself into sorrow isn't.

Anger because you cannot express any other emotion is really bad.

Maintaining the anger against the abuser rather than strangers is good.

I know guys who shout and get angry at the people they love because they can't bring themselves to say 'I f****d up' or 'the world is a crappy place' or even 'the person who hurt me isn't in this room but I am angry at them'.


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Blue_Blake
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18 Mar 2021, 7:28 am

Fnord wrote:
Blue_Blake wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Actually, as I have grown older, my operative philosophies have become "Don't get angry.  Get even." and "Revenge is a dish best served cold."
Why?
Bullies often expect an immediate response.  Attacking them gives them an excuse of "self-defense".  Crying and whining gives them an excuse to attack further.  Remaining calm confuses them.

After that, the best way to retaliate is wait for the most opportune moment to simply step out of their way and remain silent while they make the biggest, most embarrassing blunder of their lives.


Why retaliate? I am genuinely confused at this response, and I am just curious.



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18 Mar 2021, 8:34 am

Blue_Blake wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Blue_Blake wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Actually, as I have grown older, my operative philosophies have become "Don't get angry.  Get even." and "Revenge is a dish best served cold."
Why?
Bullies often expect an immediate response.  Attacking them gives them an excuse of "self-defense".  Crying and whining gives them an excuse to attack further.  Remaining calm confuses them.  After that, the best way to retaliate is wait for the most opportune moment to simply step out of their way and remain silent while they make the biggest, most embarrassing blunder of their lives.
Why retaliate?  I am genuinely confused at this response, and I am just curious.
Why?  The goal is to get a bully to stop bullying, and not for the victim to "just shut up and take it".

Open retaliation is frowned upon, and could even get one in trouble.  People in authority do not often accept the "Self Defense" defense when the bully is one of their favorite people (or a member of a favored family).  Complaining to people in authority about being bullied often leads to retaliation by the bully (and the bully's friends) against the victim.  Running away from the bully means only a short respite until the bully catches up.

The best way I have found of dealing with bullies is as I have already described: Wait for the most opportune moment to simply step out of their way and remain silent while they make the biggest, most embarrassing blunder of their lives.

Of course, if you can set up that "opportune moment" while making it look like cooperation and support on your part, then that is even more satisfying.

Yeah, that is "Passive-Aggression", but who cares as along as the bullying stops and you get to work and live in peace?

I recommend these two books to anyone having trouble with workplace bullies:
• "The Art of War", by Lao Tsu
• "The Prince", by Machiavelli

:D


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kraftiekortie
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18 Mar 2021, 8:40 am

Basically, one has to learn how to be smart with bullies.

I agree that ignoring them is the best way for bullies to go away. I learned that through my experience of being bullied.



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18 Mar 2021, 9:01 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Basically, one has to learn how to be smart with bullies.  I agree that ignoring them is the best way for bullies to go away. I learned that through my experience of being bullied.
Ignoring them only serves to confuse them.  Even then, bullies will continue to be on the lookout for exploitable weaknesses, which is why is is important to retaliate in a way they cannot anticipate -- quietly and passively -- and as quickly as possible.


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kraftiekortie
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18 Mar 2021, 9:16 am

There are definitely some bullies who would respect a bullied one if he/she fought back.

The trouble with that----is that the bullied one could get in trouble alongside the bully.

But, if this would happen, there might occur newfound respect for the bullied one by the other kids.



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18 Mar 2021, 9:30 am

Why do people in authority only see the victim fighting back, and never see the bully attacking the victim?


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kraftiekortie
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18 Mar 2021, 9:51 am

I absolutely see your point; there are, at times, a sort of "respect" for the bully from persons in authority.

It's rather a Social-Darwinist sort of thing....



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18 Mar 2021, 10:00 am

↑ ... which is another reason why my method works best.


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18 Mar 2021, 10:09 am

Fnord wrote:
Why do people in authority only see the victim fighting back, and never see the bully attacking the victim?


Because the bully gets to pick how the situation starts.

That's why I usually wouldn't get caught up in physical fights with my bullies when they initiated one. I'd just find them later on when no one was around and physically correct them. The goal was to never have a fight and instead just ensure that person would never feel brave enough to risk provoking a second incident. If you break them adequately they'll find less difficult targets.



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18 Mar 2021, 10:11 am

Yep....that's a smart way to go about it....



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18 Mar 2021, 10:15 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why do people in authority only see the victim fighting back, and never see the bully attacking the victim?
Because the bully gets to pick how the situation starts.
That makes sense; but it is the rest of your post that really brings it home:
funeralxempire wrote:
That's why I usually wouldn't get caught up in physical fights with my bullies when they initiated one. I'd just find them later on when no one was around and physically correct them. The goal was to never have a fight and instead just ensure that person would never feel brave enough to risk provoking a second incident. If you break them adequately they'll find less difficult targets.
Retaliate at the time and place of your choice and on your own terms.  That sends the clear message of "I am in control of my life, not you" to the bullies, and lets the them know that their own methods can and will be used against them.

I need to use sneakier methods, however, because I am physically weak and not in the best of health.


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funeralxempire
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18 Mar 2021, 10:46 am

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why do people in authority only see the victim fighting back, and never see the bully attacking the victim?
Because the bully gets to pick how the situation starts.
That makes sense; but it is the rest of your post that really brings it home:
funeralxempire wrote:
That's why I usually wouldn't get caught up in physical fights with my bullies when they initiated one. I'd just find them later on when no one was around and physically correct them. The goal was to never have a fight and instead just ensure that person would never feel brave enough to risk provoking a second incident. If you break them adequately they'll find less difficult targets.
Retaliate at the time and place of your choice and on your own terms.  That sends the clear message of "I am in control of my life, not you" to the bullies, and lets the them know that their own methods can and will be used against them.

I need to use sneakier methods, however, because I am physically weak and not in the best of health.


I'm describing high school age behaviour. I've come to understand that physical confrontations are much less common in the adult world and often get treated much more severely. At this point in my life I'm also just less prone to being vindictive and usually just prefer to let people's natural consequences kick in (as you were describing).

That and I've learned how effective socially networking can be to deal with bullies. That's also a method I've used to deal with bullies, especially bullies who were much more integrated into my social circles. If someone has the same toxic behaviours towards most of the members of a group once the whole group notices that individual is likely to be corrected or removed. Sometimes people treat that as gossip but most people will be comfortable expressing 'hey, they do that to me too'.