Why are you not vegan?

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1. FALSE. Completely utterly and TOTALLY false. EVERY bit of research says otherwise.

2. Where do vegans get energy from, then? The air? Let's say I get 750 calories from meat, 500 from non-meat animal products and 1,750 from veggies/grains/etc (I weigh considerably more than most people. 3000 is the minimum I'm supposed to get, and I actually rarely even come close these days). Now I cut out the meat and animal products tomorrow and am down to 1,750 calories. Where does the other 1,250 come from? This is, of course, making the assumption that I weigh the same tomorrow, which is a pretty fair assumption. You don't suddenly require fewer calories just because you don't eat meat. Eating meat and animal products doesn't burn more calories than it gets for your body.

Are you saying that vegans are underweight? That they have less muscle mass than meat eaters? That should say something about the protein intake of vegans...

For more information about plants in this regard:

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/pl ... tive-flora (Edit: By the way, plants reacting to their environment as they describe here is ONE way that plants have shown intelligence)

Let's look at it this way: How many calories does a single cow have that we can eat? A chicken? Now how many calories does a carrot have? To match the number of calories you can get from a single cow, many plants have to die.

By the way, I completely forgot about this video (which is absurd, considering how much I love it):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyi903ZHO60[/youtube]

I think we should respect any food we eat, and give thanks to the life form that gave it to us.

Last edited by MrLoony on 18 May 2011, 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

I love My Name Is Earl especially Darnell or whatever his real name is. I forget if he had a different name before he was put into witness protection.

Harry Monroe.

You better just call him Crabman.

Edit: Oh, hey, look what I found: http://ds9.botanik.uni-bonn.de/zellbio/ ... roview.php

Actually, yes. It has been found that many vegeterians/vegans in the long term do end up with deficiencies in their diet that most commonly affect muscle mass and bone renewal. In my forensics class we are learning to identify victims through skeletal remains and one indicator that someone was vegeterian or vegan over a long period of time is that the bone regrowth patterns (particularly in a bone that was broken and healed up) was different and their skeletons were more likely to be more porous than average. The reason is because these diets suffer from deficiencies in calcium and other nutrients...and only a small percentage of those who follow these diets properly supplement their daily meals with what they need to counteract it.

That being said, a properly sustained vegeterian/vegan diet is healthy... but it is not very easy to do.

Pfft. You're supposed to let the question stand as is. It's a question that they can't answer, because either way destroys their argument. When you answer one way, even if it's correct, they can argue against it without arguing that the other way is true (because they don't specifically mention the other way).

I didn't say they don't feel pain, what said was that they don't feel pain in the same way as us.



Nope. I'm saying that meat eaters are responsible for the consumption of both the plants they eat, and the plants which all the animals they eat eat. I eat one meal of plants. You eat one meal of bits of an animal+plants+all the plants that the animal ate throughout his or her lifetime.



I'm sure the cow appreciates it when you steal her babies and then slit her throat. (the same goes for chickens/pigs/whatever as well, of course)






What is comes down to is this; it is wrong to cause suffering, so I will try and cause as little suffering as possible. Abstaining from exploiting animals greatly decreases my 'suffering caused' quantum. But I don't really know why I'm bothering with this, you've clearly already made up your mind (and yes, I have too, I've made up my mind that it's wrong to cause suffering blablabla).

(double post)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNON5iNf07o[/youtube]

This woman is talking a load of rubbish. Really. She's full of ssht. I don't even know where to start.

@YourMother: That's good that you get enough protein on a vegan diet; however, not everyone else out there has the same protein needs, nor the same access to food as you do. Vegan diets are perfect for some individuals, and an absolute disaster for others.

Reasons why I am not vegan:

1. Due to a health condition, I have dietary protein and iron needs that exceed that of a normal person, and even with meat in my diet it's hard enough to keep up.

2. I believe that the body of a human being is the body of an animal, and animals eat each other all the time. They also cause each other suffering all the time. It is the way the earth works, even without people around.

Now that being said I am a BIG proponent of knowing where food comes from. I like to buy locally from farms where I know the living conditions of these animals that give me life are good. Often I'll even catch my own fish or have wild-hunted duck, or I sometimes even eat fried grasshoppers and dragonflies. To add to this I tend to eat every part of the animal if I can.

The way of thinking that states that a plant doesn't mind being eaten while an animal does, is not my personal belief. I believe that every life is important.

So in conclusion, I respect vegans for what they do and why they do it, but I am not one of them.

Priorities. I have a tight budget and often rely on meat eaters for food. If I became vegan right now it would adversely affect my bigger goals.

But my long term goal is to be a fruitarian: to only eat what plants want us to eat.

Because every now and then I crave red meat. I don't eat it all the time, in fact I hardly ever do. But when I do get the need for beef, I just gotta have it. Cuz let's face it, veggies can only satisfy so much. I like variety.

So... because they feel it differently, it's OK to inflict pain on them? Wow. I can't imagine how someone on WP could make this argument. (Edit: Furthermore, your argument ignores the ethical implications of killing plants, rather than just inflicting pain on them.)



This argument is so horribly flawed I don't even know where to begin. Let's try starting this way: The animal consumes plants, but it does this to sustain its own life. This argument implies that the animal's life is completely meaningless in this cycle.

What about the animals that died and their nutrients went into the ground (from natural or unnatural causes)? Do those count when eating plants? What about the animal feces, made from plant bits, that's used to make fertilizer? What about the bits of dead plants used as fertilizer? Do all those add up in the plants and animals we eat?

Last edited by MrLoony on 18 May 2011, 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Also I dont want to become someone who calls meat eaters murderers.

Food. Same as anyone else.

You're asking if an omnivore eats 3000 calories daily and wants to switch to a vegan diet, where those 3000 calories would come from?
They'd come from non-animal source. That's what "vegan" means.


Exactly, nor do you have to eat animal products to reach a particular caloric intake. Quite silly.


Vegetarians do tend to have lower BMI's, which is excellent in a nation of overweight and obese people. Protein is found in a great many plant foods. Even if vegans did have less muscle mass, so what? They also have far far less incidence of diabetes, heart disease, and high cholesterol. It's absurd to point to whether a diet includes meat and animal products as indicative of whether it's healthy, given the state of the Western world.


That's not "intelligence", but an evolutionary imperative built over millions of years to react in certain ways to certain stimuli.

...not that "intelligence" has anything to do with any ethical question involved, that being defined by capacity to consciously-perceive pain and emotional anguish.


The only way this is anything but a rolling on the floor laughable "point" is if one has not even an elementary education in biology.

That's aside from the fact that all the nutrients in animal products can be obtained from plant-based sources, without nearly so much saturated fat and cholesterol.

That's cute. I doubt you'd be so complacent if it was you being upside down to have your throat slit or being boiled alive.
I'll give "thanks" after, don't worry.

Odd, that- to consider a sentient creature worthy of an expression of gratitude, but not worthy of the simple right to not be tortured and killed.