I want to steal some Astrology geeks

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But you aren't really being skeptical towards astrology, you've come with your mind already made up about it, based upon some of the experiences which you mention.

I already mentioned that I can't (currently) deliver anything that would prove the validity of astrology either way. But then I don't make any claims for or against the validity or invalidity of astrology.

You're the one who has come into the thread with the statement "astrology = false", and I think the onus is upon you to back that up with something cogent. Or else, what value does it have?

Last edited by Moog on 12 Apr 2011, 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vigilans, your knowledge of Astrology is painfully, obviously small. You've yet to show any understanding of it beyond what the masses think it is and seem to think that throwing that stuff in our faces is meaningful. That's like pointing and laughing at Mormons when talking to a Catholic! That is what you're doing right now! It's silly and I'm just trying to point that out.

Learn first talk later. It's a good rule that even I need to remind myself to follow.

No we're not. Astrology is pseudoscience. There is absolutely no way you can prove any of the claims you make in regards to signs, planets or anything. On the other hand, I can prove that Mars has a (negligible) gravitational effect on the Earth, or that the Sun wobbles as planets pull on it. This is the root of my skepticism. There is absolutely no way you are ever going to be able to prove that astrology has anything tangible



I have 'made my mind up' about astrology because of my long time interest in astronomy, which is real science, that can be proven, or dis-proven with scientific methodology. Astrology is all about faith. That is the root of my skepticism. How that doesn't classify as skepticism to you guys is beyond me. Perhaps I shouldn't have put such a laconic statement in at the beginning



I could say the same to you about astronomy, which is actually valid.

You can't even post once without ad hominems? This is a joke

Well, I wish I hadn't wasted the last half hour of my life.

If you come up with anything, PM me. I'm genuinely interested. Actual proof that astrology is bunk would save me a lot of time and energy.

Good night.

Go read about astrophysics, hell on wikipedia, and your understanding of why astrology is pseudoscience perhaps will increase.
If you can come up with something to prove astrology is real, I'm interested in hearing it

Yeah... I get that you think that... I was just saying it anyway.



But they don't teach the subjects at the same time... It's great that you're into Astronomy, but what authority does that give you over Astrology? All they do is help each other out in regards to remembering some of the names of planets and stars.



But I haven't displayed any of my knowledge of Astronomy. This isn't the place to. How on earth is that a valid statement?

Son, no. I can only assume that you're still in that stage of practicing using your will and intellect in public forums. How's it going for you?

This used to work better when facebook privacy was stupidly wrong (now it is just mildly shameless)

If you want to test astrology, try to find people with your exact birth date using the internet, That's right , even your birth year. It is not actually hard to do it. Something like typing "Born 45-th of February of 19XX" in google.

Behold the incredibly different people you'll find. Heck, I found a high school jock with my same birth date, that was the ultimate evidence against astrology.

Keep up the ad hominems, it really helps your argument



Astronomy is scientific. Astrology isn't. Its that simple, really.

Can you point me to specific aspects of astrophysics that would provide me with a basis to disbelieve astrology?

Astronomy is by itself enough to show that just about 95% of the stuff Astrology uses as a basis for calculation are wrong. Including the actual zodiac being completely different to what Astrology uses solar signs. Or the fact that Astrology considers Pluto's influence yet doesn't seem to care about Eris' influence even though Eris is larger, it may have something to do with Astrologers not knowing Xena exists...

That by itself shows that even if there was an influence of planets and stars over us, Astrology is based mostly on made-up heuristics and does not really calculate the actual influence. That's probably because Astrology does not have an actual method...

Re; Xena: It takes a while to include more planets and stars. There's the option to include a great deal more, but I am a novice (sort of) and only use a few extra. Astrologers are still defining the meanings of previously unused planets and stars today.

It's called the 'progression of the equinoxes', and the tropical zodiac system works independently of where the constellations actually are. We talked about this earlier. The 13th sign stuff is only an issue if you don't understand astrology.

Astrologers do incorporate new astronomic bodies into their work, though it often takes a long time for them to decide on what new bodies represent, and to trickle into the mainstream of astrology. Some astrologers work with many of the asteroids and planetoids.

Pretty much. It is a form of divination at best, pseudoscience at worst. Though both are equally irrelevant. I very much doubt anything I say to these astrologer believers will change their mind. Its really a shame that New Age people revived Astrology in the mid-20th century, because it has pretty much been losing credibility since the time of the Enlightenment, which is also about the time when people realized Astrology & Astronomy are completely unrelated- hundreds of years ago.




Astrophysics, astronomy, cosmology- they are broad disciplines. I have already stated why I am skeptical of astrology (it is completely untestable via scientific methodology)- if that is not good enough, I don't expect anything else I'm going to say is going to convince you or Apx. But I appreciate that you aren't working at insulting me like Apx

It takes a while. That means that even if the basis for Astrology were true, it is not correct right now and it will take them "a while" to update. Where "a while" may be 5 years. Not to mention, what will happen when they find another celestial body?

And also, it is not necessary for me to use that argument to disprove Astrology. You will need an argument to prove Astrology true. Do you have evidence for the claims of Astrology? Do you know the biological process in which planets and stars influence not only our personalities but our future? Do you have evidence that the calculations Astrologers use are correct? Are you sure that they interpreting a "quadrature " as something is not based on complete guesses some astrologer made up a long ago? Or the fact that Venus is supposed to have a different effect than Mars, what is the basis for that theory? Is there a basis at all? Do you have evidence that Astrology has been ever used to predict anything accurately?

Are you aware of the many studies and experiments that show that you can show generic horoscopes written with no basis on anything and get positive feedback from most people in a room after making them all read the same horoscope?


Does not it bug you that Astrology has to basically invent faux laws called 'progression of equinoxes' that just mean "ignore all current evidence that our calculations were wrong instead of actually updating our calculations"? Ok, I admit this last question was rhetorical...

Last edited by Vexcalibur on 12 Apr 2011, 7:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I already asked that and all it got me was being called a bigot and ignorant