America Is not so free anymore

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I have often thought about this too. How free are we?

One thing that I can say to perhaps make us feel better is to look at the past. For example, 1692 in Salem, Massachusetts would be a scary time. Making just one unusual gesture could get one in a witch trial pleading for their life. Oh my! How would we autistic people look to the colonists during this witch hysteria? They looked for people who "behaved strangely." Europe also had their witch hunts in the middle ages---and on a much bigger scale. As a person with Asperger's, I would not like to have lived there during that time.

And what about freedom of religion? Try to pick your own religion during the middle ages and see what happens.

Though it may look like we have lost some of our freedom and rights, I think overall I am glad to live in the day and age that I do.

One thing that does concern me is how dependent we have become on others (retail marketers, grocery stores, technology, etc.) If most of us were to be transported back in time a hundred years we would scarcely know how to survive. Most people in the region I live farmed and more or less provided for themselves (even making their own clothing). In some ways it looks like we have digressed. We think we our more advanced. But $1000 says Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson would be making bids on Ebay by the end of the day if we transported them to our time. Most historical people would have little difficulty surviving and adjusting to the niceties of our world. But could we survive in theirs? Just something to think about.

Always has always will...

In fact, most of the first Americans lost their land in the name of progress while slaughtered like animals. No more trees and other natural simplicities to enjoy.... not that most Americans care these days since we consume most of it in our highly competitive economy.

Same with wars, lands, voting, racism, slavery, corruption, religion, politics, and the such.

To add to this, there are nearly always power structures people are rarely entirely aware of, criminal, for example mafia, companies in business, through to governmental, from propaganda to kgb operatives, secret service, all the rest.

Because of the mass expansion of the internet, these power structures had to catch up, and by doing so to some extent made themselves known.

My question is "What is Freedom?"

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Freedom, n. (Webster)
1. A state of exemption from the power or control of another; liberty; exemption from slavery, servitude or confinement.
...
5. Any exemption from constraint or control.
...
8. License; improper familiarity; violation of the rules of decorum; with a plural. Beware of what are called innocent freedoms.
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There is no longer any such thing as freedom anywhere. For example: We are supposed to be "free to travel by the common means of the day", yet it is actually at the point of a gun that we now instead purchase a license (an "improper familiarity") to do so.

Last edited by leejosepho on 06 Nov 2009, 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

America has never been free. We've always had laws and government telling us what we can and cannot do.

Anybody remember "Sideways Stories from Wayside School"? There was one where the "moral" of the story was that there are two choices: safety, or freedom. And they're mutually exclusive. It's true in a lot of ways. When you focus on one, you have to cut back on the other. When you focus on security, it comes at the expense of freedom.

SHUT UP OR WE'LL TASE YOU!!

At what point has anyone ever been "free"?

This seems to me to be one of those implausible ideals. We talk about "freedom" and "liberty" in the nature of absolutes, but they are ultimately relativistic concepts. Are you freer than a person living in North Korea? Most assuredly. Are you freer than a person living in Canada? Very much dependent upon context.

To my way of thinking, reliance upon absolutist concepts of freedom and liberty leads inevitably to the need for semantic distinction. All manner of judicial hide-and-seek is required to make sense of legitimate legislative interests that appear to fly in the face of individual freedoms and liberties.

The Canadian constitutional approach guarantees specified rights and freedoms, subject only, "to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." The approach admits of the fact that rights and freedoms can never be absolute, and the State has the power (and should be legitimized in its exercise of that power) to abridge those rights and freedoms. The key is to build a consistent and cogent framework to legitimize that exercise of State power.

I think now is freer and more impowered than the last fifty years.

Structures take security, but on a personal level, we have the best world ever.

The independance Glider18 mentions is missing, even in my grandparents time most had a large garden, a chicken yard, and could just live. Now we are dependant on a system for food, and all systems are lightbulbs, they work until they don't.

Wall Street and Government seem to be two bulbs flickering before they go out, and we will just put the pieces back together.

They may seem real, but we no more depend on them than if a religion fell. Life will go on, and be better for it.

No one has power over the masses, if the masses say no.

Most people are self enslaving, they restrict their range, not government or social forces.

Most people call for giving away their freedom, demanding the government do something about something.

Then they demand the government do everything about everything, and it does as the people demand.

Most elections are settled by how the most ignorant 2% vote. If you want to get elected....

People who do not understand business demand that it be taxed, but all taxes go on the workers, and the customers. When that gets overly annoying, the business moves to Mexico.

Government is not the enemy of freedom, it is the servant of the people, with a bad master.

Some things are the same, I can move, start a business, without permission. What restrictions there are, such as putting others at risk by driving, flying a plane, are reasonable, and hardly any fail to get a drivers license. With that any can go to Walmart and buy enough guns and ammo to send all of Europe into panic. 300 million people, 600 million guns, and the government has only a few million.

The balance of power is with the people. That most do not take well to living is a shame. I look up at the magic of the universe, the wonder of time, and all of the oppertunities I have today. I try to use them.

We are not only the most free people have ever been, we have stuff. While most go for the big box house and huge SUV, I buy the means of production. This is the land of oppertunity. I am older than the electric typewriter, and now use the internet.

The oppressive license for my motorcycle cost $12 for four years. I do not feel burdened.

Freedom is a state of mind. It is not given, it is a right to do as you wish.

I spoke with Hees today, he is from Somaliland. He loves America and Freedom. He has lived with restriction, oppression, and all of my African friends say the same. I worried when I came to America, but in two years I have not been stopped by the police, everyone is so friendly, this is a great country.

Freedom is an open door, it is up to you to go through it.

Move to one of your mainstream european countries, like Italy, France or Germany, and you will likely thrive much more.

I never really saw America as a completely free country anyway. I mean come on, "freedom" is a term you got to take very loosely. But instead, people seem to have this high expectation that America is suppose to be this sort of grand utopia. And it's always been the people who have a bit too passionate and self-obsessed with their own beliefs who dont seem to get to the big picture about all of it.

No matter what country you're in, there's always gonna be something you dont like about it.

Really? In Illinois, are you required to purchase a license to ride as a passenger in a car, bus, aircraft, or train? Certainly you must be licensed to operate such a dangerous item - but unless you're such an extreme loner that hermits are telling you to lighten up, and thus must operate them yourself, you can most assuredly travel freely in them.

As far as I know, commercial travel only requires a ticket.



In commerce, yes, but "the law of the land" related to personal travel is not commercial.

well, from the protests I've seen in youtube videos, during Israel's invasion of Gaza, I've seen people wave Hamas flags freely in America and the US lists Hamas as a terror organization, same with hezbollah flags