Do you believe in God?

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Yes. I am a Christian. I believe in God. I personally believe that God is neither male or female but that many consider Him a father figure because throughout ancient times people believed that men were superior. At one time God did not allow suffering or illness but when God tested them, they screwed things up.

I personally don't think the Bible is meant to be taken literally word for word but that It's symbolism. God may have dictated the Bible, but people wrote it down for Him and I don't think they quoted Him word for word.

The majority of Christians I talk too seem to believe that if one does not go to church, you are spiritually doomed. I personally feel closer to God when I am alone, surrounded by His non human creation. If that's what worshipping is about, feeling closer to God. Why must I do it in a place where I am uncomfortable and feel no closer to God than at the store? If animals are God's creation, why then am I not allowed to bring my pets? Some Catholic churches encourage you to during the Feast of St. Francis, but why am I not allowed to bring them in at other times?

If we are supposed to be nice to each other and treat one another as we would want to be treated, why than were Christians some of my worst bullies? Why was I humiliated for my special interests at church? If murder is a sin, why then do Christians hunt and support wars? Christians are among the biggest hypocrites I have ever encountered. I believe in God, but have my doubts about most people's idea of organized religion.

I think that if I try to live a good life and not tread on too many toes, that's good enough for me. I may choose to dip my foot into another philosophy as I get older (I did consider Buddhism for a while, but that didn't pan out), but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it...

I don't believe in the white mans god, christianity is a dead lifeless religion that is out of touch with the natural and spiritual world

Have you ever met a person who gets everything they want and never has to struggle for it? I have and those people have learnt nothing because of it. They're like the Eloi in HG Wells' The Time Machine in a state of perpetual ignorance. If you saw those people in a film you would pity them. I don't attest to knowing what an all-knowing, all-powerful super-benevolent being has planned - but I do know that pain is the only thing that makes you truly appreciate pleasure.

Life is suffering.

When a person dies, you shouldn't curse yourself, or fate, or god, the sky or the universe. You should appreciate the fragility of life itself.

That is no excuse if the creator is completely all-powerful, as that would mean he would have the power to easily be able to create us without that axiom. In fact, a god that is and has everything would have no need to create anything in the first place.

Or wonder why we're still being punished for eating some, litterally God-damned fruit.

The key word in this question is 'believe'.

Just because it cannot be proved (some believe that it CAN) that God exists and created everything, DOES NOT mean that such a God does NOT exist.

and

Just because it cannot be proved that God does NOT exist, DOES NOT mean that such a God DOES exist, either!

The agnostic recognises and accepts that such beliefs (either as atheists or 'believers') are based on incomplete knowledge; this is logical statement of fact.

I understand WHY some who do NOT believe in a creator God, spend time fervently explaining why such a God cannot 'exist'.

Fervernce that is blind to logic often has catastrophic consequences.

Last edited by Blindspot149 on 21 Feb 2010, 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Can I suggest that if you firmly disbelieve in a deity in the first place, then your opinion on whether he is super benevolent is going to be biased. That's like saying: I don't believe in fairies but they're evil.

Forget God's motives. I'm not so grand to suggest why a powerful being would or wouldn't create us. Bugger me if I can understand his plan - if he has one. I wasn't there when he was writing it and neither were you, so what we both think is equally speculative.
All I'm doing is to look at a hypothetical situation and see where it goes:


Either you think God exists or you don't.

If you don't, then please don't read any further as you've already judged any position on God to be nonsense anyway.

But... if you do think God exists then you accept that God created all livings, even us.

And you also accept that we feel pain.

Therefore by logic it is conceivable that God made us feel pain, just as readily as he made us feel pleasure. The bible has a theory, Darwin has a theory. The point is we feel pain and if you believe in God you have to accept that God had a hand in that for whatever reason. So pain is important - if you believe in God.



Some chick eating fruit didn't cause an Earthquake in Haiti. Or a good housewife to die of cancer. Or any of the other millions of terrible things that happen every single day.

And neither did it cause any of the millions of great things that happen every day.

Damn you God for making it sunny today. Damn you God for letting my kid's team win at football. Damn you God for getting me a job.

It sounds odd doesn't it?

Actually I should add, I don't really care what people believe. They can believe in nothing, everything, Buddha, Allah, Christ, Vishnu, Steve McQueen (the list goes on...).

I'm only giving my own opinion on an open question, not trying to convert people. Everyone's on their own path.

Sometimes though I just feel like we should stop attributing supernatural forces for everything. I know its ironic to say that whilst also believing in God, but I don't blame or attribute everything to God. Perhaps in that sense my belief on what "all knowing, all powerful, all seeing, all whatever" is different to other people's. When the trains late, I don't say" well that's God's fault. When the train's on time I don't say, well God did that. The train just is or isn't. Period.

When a person says "Why did a Good God let the Haitians die?" I feel that it's in a similar category to "God smote the evil Haitians".

Maybe... just maybe... it was an earthquake after all.

An open minded examination of the Bible and Science can reveal very large areas of overlap.

The two may NOT be mutually exclusive.

The pride needed to accept (or even consider) this statement is for most people considerable.

It is not however insurmountable.

That's what I'm saying. But that begs the question, if you don't need gods to explain earthquakes, why would you need gods to explain anything? Maybe, just maybe, the Universe just happened all by itself after all. Maybe it was a collision of vibrating dimensional planes or maybe it was the effect of nothingness being the same thing as an infinite time and space of emptiness, and with even the smallest statistical chance of matter coming into existence, the Universe just had to happen sooner or later. Not saying that's necessarily what happened, but if God can't even prevent an earthquake, how could you possibly expect him to create a universe, and why would you need him to explain its existence? Wouldn't that just give you a hypothesis that demands even more explanation? I'm sorry for invoking Occam's razor, but that's just useless in terms of explanatory power.

And maybe God created that collision of vibrating planes or whatever else started it and maybe that was enough. I think I don't fall into the category of what most people think God is. I think God probably made the universe because God's trying to figure things out too. So as I said, I don't really see God fitting into the all-knowing, all-seeing, all-whatever category.

Again look at your words - if God can't even prevent an earthquake - you're assigning attribution.

Also, and I have raised this in a previous thread - Occam was a Christian and he actually used the 'razor' to try to prove God's existence. The fundamental argument for agnosticism is taken from a believer.

Having been a hairs' breadth away from joining the convent after high school (not because I had faith, but I was an excellent Theologian), I would say that I have a bittersweet relationship with God......we are much better friends now that I am older

I also believe in science.......

And although they may be polar opposites, some of the most famous scientists have been men of God......

So......

I believe that everything exists,

and nothing exists........

Mics

That's argument from authority, which is a logical fallacy. Just because Occam came up with Occam's Razor doesn't necessarily have to mean he was open-minded, self-aware or scientifically informed enough to apply it properly to his own foregone conclusions. Keep in mind that science has come a long way since the dark ages.

It cannot be proven that God doesn't exist for one cannot prove a universal negative. And, the existence of God is something that could be proven. Also, the design, concept, and intricate details of the world and universe indicate an intelligent designer.

It is unlikely that I will respond anymore on this thread for I have given you enough to think about. You may conduct your own research to determine the basis of these statements I have shared with you. And, there is nothing more I wish to say on this argument at this point in time. And I appreciate other believers like me that have come forward to promote their views on God---you need no proof.

A piece of advice---appreciate the diversity of not only our autism, but also the diversity of religion. Accept diversity. To argue can often seem like the treatment many of us have gotten from school bullies (especially when dealing with sensitive issues like religion)---none of us liked that. So---keep it calm and have a nice debate.

Not only do I believe in him. I believe that each of us are created in his image. I love him.