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Solvejg
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15 Apr 2011, 3:46 am

Laz wrote:
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I even have an avocado tree in my yard


I have two green gauge tree's and several apple tree's. But thats a garden city for you

We also have an allotment that my father has made into his project since he retired. We get loads of herbs, vegetables and berries from that

I'm still eating the green gauge and green tomatoe chutney we made from last years produce oh man it's food of the gods home made chutney 8)

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I get 90percent of my produce from the farmers market down the road


Does the rest of Sydney turn up and do the same :P Individually you can do things quite easily, its collectively distributing food to the entire population of cities thats the tricky part


I don't live in sydney. Although I am sure the murray darling basin would be able to supply sufficient crops to feed everyone there. The wastage of fresh produce in our country is huge with around 40percent of crops rotting in the fields.


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Tomasu
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15 Apr 2011, 3:50 am

Tequila wrote:
Man was meant to eat meat. Englishmen weren't meant to eat exotic fruits and other vegan fare. We do, sometimes, of course, but that doesn't mean we're supposed to. :)


^^ Greetings Tequila,

^^ Please do see a little earlier response from me below, that responds to your statement above.

Tomasu wrote:
I believe that this little statement is very interesting and I believe that perhaps I have come across this statement from humans as an argument that I must eat meat.

However, I personally feel that this statement is simply stating "I have the ability to eat meat, therefore I must". Indeed, we see that this statement uses the same logic as "I have the ability to inflict harm upon myself, therefore I must".


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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15 Apr 2011, 3:52 am

Laz wrote:
A vegan diet done properly is healthy, question is how many of them do actually manage it properly? I've known people who were quite well versed in what they needed to do to sustain the diet, but i've also known others who were making themselves ill and I could actually see (as a health professional) signs on their face that they had some serious deficiencies going on there.

But if you are trying to claim politically that it is a more viable and sustainable diet then a more mixed one or vegetarianism you are seriously delluded. The amount of logistics and distribution required to bring to you all the wide variety of food you can eat as a vegan is polluting the earth with fossil fuel emissions. It's simply bollocks to claim its environmentally friendly. If its environmentally friendly then why are you eating all the plants :wink:

I'm sure there are people out there who engage in vegan diets based entirely on the food that is available in their local area. I.e. not imported and grown locally. You can do that on a local basis. Infact we could save ourselves a lot of time and resources making more use of coastal food and unused arable land but even so it ain't gonna sustain 70 million people.

Also in terms of our evolutionary history we were adapted for a neolithic diet. And that included meat, but we cherry pick the meat we buy today in our butchers and supermarkets. You eat the whole animal to gain all the vitamins and minerals from the other internal organs.

There is also a theory that modern humans missing link in the evolutionary chain was an "aquatic ape" species. You can see that in the health benefits of populations that exclusively eat fish due to living on the coast.

I used to be a Pescetarian Vegetarian for a chunk of my teen years. It probably is quite an ideal diet in some respects for health benefits


The Aquatic Ape theory has always interested me, but I found it lacking in the end. There were far too many assumptions made and not enough hard evidence to back them up.

Still, It could have happened.


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Solvejg
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15 Apr 2011, 3:54 am

Solvejg wrote:
Laz wrote:
Quote:
I even have an avocado tree in my yard


I have two green gauge tree's and several apple tree's. But thats a garden city for you

We also have an allotment that my father has made into his project since he retired. We get loads of herbs, vegetables and berries from that

I'm still eating the green gauge and green tomatoe chutney we made from last years produce oh man it's food of the gods home made chutney 8)

Quote:
I get 90percent of my produce from the farmers market down the road


Does the rest of Sydney turn up and do the same :P Individually you can do things quite easily, its collectively distributing food to the entire population of cities thats the tricky part


I don't live in sydney. Although I am sure the murray darling basin would be able to supply sufficient crops to feed everyone there. The wastage of fresh produce in our country is huge with around 40percent of crops rotting in the fields.


Our blocks here are a lot larger also. My house (which is 2 units and we live in one) on on a quarter acre block. Over 70percent of our trees and bushes are native to promote good bird life in the inner city. I also choose not to have a car and rely on other forms of transport like cycling and buses. Our city is also the first city in the world to incorporate some solar powered and electric buses into the fleet.


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Psychopompos
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15 Apr 2011, 3:56 am

Vegetarism for ethical reasons is a pure non-sense, as plants are living being as animals (their lack of nervous system isn't an argument ; the important thing is that they are alive). When you understand that, eating vegetables, eggs, meat (even from mouses, cats and Homo Sapiens Sapiens) won't make you feel guilty.


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Solvejg
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15 Apr 2011, 3:57 am

Psychopompos wrote:
Vegetarism for ethical reasons is a pure non-sense, as plants are living being as animals (their lack of nervous system isn't an argument ; the important thing is that they are alive). When you understand that, eating vegetables, eggs, meat (even from mouses, cats and Homo Sapiens Sapiens) won't make you feel guilty.


Maybe you should become a fruitarian. :D


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Psychopompos
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15 Apr 2011, 3:59 am

I like better meat than fruits. :P


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Tomasu
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15 Apr 2011, 4:00 am

Psychopompos wrote:
Vegetarism for ethical reasons is a pure non-sense, as plants are living being as animals (their lack of nervous system isn't an argument ; the important thing is that they are alive). When you understand that, eating vegetables, eggs, meat (even from mouses, cats and Homo Sapiens Sapiens) won't make you feel guilty.


^^ Greetings Psychopompos,

Indeed plants are living beings. But do they suffer? Either you eat or decide to pass away. If you decide to eat, then you must choose what to eat by thinking of the possible consequences. I decide not to eat meat as I believe that this causes suffering. I do not believe that plants suffer, or at least, I believe they suffer much less than animals. Therefore I choose to eat plants.


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Laz
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15 Apr 2011, 4:07 am

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The wastage of fresh produce in our country is huge with around 40percent of crops rotting in the fields


Thats a universal problem around the world. It's absolutely ridiculous especially when we have access to refridgeration technology and modern methods of transportation.

Quote:
Our city is also the first city in the world to incorporate some solar powered and electric buses into the fleet.


Yes, you have sunlight there. Think of us ricket inflicted sun deprived english people when your next out in your perma-blue sky's :P

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The Aquatic Ape theory has always interested me, but I found it lacking in the end. There were far too many assumptions made and not enough hard evidence to back them up


Thats why its a theory, it's never had any hard evidence.

Quote:
Although I am sure the murray darling basin would be able to supply sufficient crops to feed everyone there


There are 15 countries around the world that are net producers of food. I imagine you and NZ must be two of them, Canada is another. Zimbabwei and Myanomar used to be as well before their military dictators/robert "nobhead" mugabe ruined their economies.

The UK is not a net producer of food. The land could realistically only sustain less than 15 million people. The current population is just under 70 million.


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Solvejg
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15 Apr 2011, 4:13 am

Laz wrote:
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The wastage of fresh produce in our country is huge with around 40percent of crops rotting in the fields


Thats a universal problem around the world. It's absolutely ridiculous especially when we have access to refridgeration technology and modern methods of transportation.

Quote:
Our city is also the first city in the world to incorporate some solar powered and electric buses into the fleet.


Yes, you have sunlight there. Think of us ricket inflicted sun deprived english people when your next out in your perma-blue sky's :P

Quote:
The Aquatic Ape theory has always interested me, but I found it lacking in the end. There were far too many assumptions made and not enough hard evidence to back them up


Thats why its a theory, it's never had any hard evidence.

Quote:
Although I am sure the murray darling basin would be able to supply sufficient crops to feed everyone there


There are 15 countries around the world that are net producers of food. I imagine you and NZ must be two of them, Canada is another. Zimbabwei and Myanomar used to be as well before their military dictators/robert "nobhead" mugabe ruined their economies.

The UK is not a net producer of food. The land could realistically only sustain less than 15 million people. The current population is just under 70 million.


Australia would be able to support a lot more people if we got rid of the meat farming industry and relied solely on meat from sustainable sources like kangaroo, emu and camel. All of which are pests here and can survive in the arid interior. In fact camel cheese is quite nice. At the moment, 60 percent of land that could be used for crops is being used for living and the meat industry.


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Laz
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15 Apr 2011, 4:21 am

The wonderful legacy of colonialism for you.

But yeah lots of waste and poor land management around the world. The one thing humans are very good at is turning a nice bit of land into a desert.


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15 Apr 2011, 4:33 am

Psychopompos wrote:
Vegetarism for ethical reasons is a pure non-sense, as plants are living being as animals (their lack of nervous system isn't an argument ; the important thing is that they are alive). When you understand that, eating vegetables, eggs, meat (even from mouses, cats and Homo Sapiens Sapiens) won't make you feel guilty.


YEP YEP YEP YEP

Eating it because you don't like meat etc is all good. A lot of my meals don't have meat because it's too expensive. It's also been clinically proven that plants go though quite intense trauma on their scale when picked and cut. Its no worse than eating an animal.

Even eating humans is in the same boat. If a grey alien had us in his diet, then what are you going to do, moan about it? Tell him he can't eat people when he needs it for a balanced diet? Foodchain. Nothing you can do. Just eat to live.



Last edited by hale_bopp on 15 Apr 2011, 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Solvejg
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15 Apr 2011, 4:37 am

Laz wrote:
The wonderful legacy of colonialism for you.

But yeah lots of waste and poor land management around the world. The one thing humans are very good at is turning a nice bit of land into a desert.


We are a wasteful species. it isn't helped by the majority thinking that the way they were raised, is the way to live. if everyone made small changes, we would have less pollution and better living conditions. Even where i live, i am the only person i know who doesn't own a clothes dryer and most people put on their air conditioners year round. :?


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Laz
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15 Apr 2011, 6:57 am

The best solution would be less people around the world. It's not very popular as it involves a bit of killing. But I dunno a decent plague that wiped out half the human race would do the world wonders.


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Solvejg
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15 Apr 2011, 7:01 am

Laz wrote:
The best solution would be less people around the world. It's not very popular as it involves a bit of killing. But I dunno a decent plague that wiped out half the human race would do the world wonders.


or just the idiots.


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Laz
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15 Apr 2011, 7:38 am

Solvejg wrote:
Laz wrote:
The best solution would be less people around the world. It's not very popular as it involves a bit of killing. But I dunno a decent plague that wiped out half the human race would do the world wonders.


or just the idiots.


A genetically engineered virus that targets idiots.

But then who would we have left to do the idiot jobs like social workers n stuff?


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