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Gabbin' about Guns :)

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Fudo
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31 May 2011, 4:23 am

Dox47 wrote:
Fudo wrote:
since we got back to wwII, the Sturmgewehr 44. :)

considered to be the first assault rifle, it fired a 7.92mm iirc..
you can see the influence it had on the AK47


7.92 Kurz, the intermediate caliber was a far more important development than the gun itself. I think it would be better to say that the StG44 had quite an impact on Mikhail Kalashnikov, since he was injured on the eastern front and designed the AK while recuperating.


well, i wasn't that far off..
re influencing the AK, i meant just the shape of it..
anywho, thanks to all who've posted. :)



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31 May 2011, 9:44 am

posting this here too, as it's relevant..
seems the elves have taken an interest in guns.. :)

QI Fact of the Day


A bullet fired from a Kalashnikov weighs only a quarter of an ounce, but leaves the barrel at more than 1,500mph. This gives it a force of impact equivalent to that of a brick dropped from the top of St Paul's cathedral.


QI Quote of the Day


"A lot of the people who keep a gun at home for safety are the same ones who refuse to wear a seat belt"
GEORGE CARLIN



Last edited by Fudo on 01 Jun 2011, 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hermid
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31 May 2011, 10:24 am

Fudo wrote:
posting this hear too, as it's relevant..
seems the elves have taken an interest in guns.. :)

QI Fact of the Day


A bullet fired from a Kalashnikov weighs only a quarter of an ounce, but leaves the barrel at more than 1,500mph. This gives it a force of impact equivalent to that of a brick dropped from the top of St Paul's cathedral.


QI Quote of the Day


"A lot of the people who keep a gun at home for safety are the same ones who refuse to wear a seat belt"
GEORGE CARLIN


Hmmm, How man Joules of force does that brick have at terminal velocity(I think its 32 m/s)?, I dont think the brick would have that much force unless its being dropped in a Vacuum where will keep accelerating at 9.81 m/s2

AK-47's 7.62x39mm has 2,073.6 to 2,460j of force(depending on type of bullet)
AK-74 5.45x39 has around 1,400j of force



Mdyar
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01 Jun 2011, 11:16 am

Maybe interesting.

Gabbin about ballistics:

There was at one time two camps of thought( still pending btw) : one camp believed in "momentum" and the other "kinetic energy," as 'the prime factor' in game stopping power.

In other words the big lumbering one ounce hunk of lead vs. a quarter ounce chunk of lead moving much faster.

(One has more momentum and the latter has more kinetic energy in this experiment.)

Which one penetrates 'more'?

Both projectiles are solid ( i.e. no expansion) with same frontal area .

Hint: The big lead one will swing a ballistic pendulum more than the latter.

There is nothing like a block of gelatin to experiment on here, so I ran it through this on a small scale test with a chronograph and a variable speed pneumatic air rifle .

So the math says kinetic energy( or foot pounds of energy) will drive it deeper, and this experiment confirmed that, despite the heavier projecticle with the more momentum, swinging a pendulum farther, ( but with less kinetic energy).

One caveat is when projectile hits something hard, (i.e. bone) then the balance is turned the other way.



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01 Jun 2011, 11:58 am

thanks, Mdyar. i think that offers a better response to Hermid's query than i could possibly muster & it is indeed quite interesting :)



Katatonic
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01 Jun 2011, 1:29 pm

Excellent topic :D

A couple weeks ago I bought my self this:


Image

Mean little gun. Shoots .410 cartridges or .45's. This is the gun that stays near my bed. Just point in the general direction of an intruder and they're done. Its basically a shotgun in pistol size. I thought it was cool :D

I'd love to get my hands on an AA-12 Automatic shotgun. It can shoot 5 shells in 1 second. You'd think the kick back on that thing would be intense but from what I read......its not all that bad at all.

Image


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Fudo
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01 Jun 2011, 2:08 pm

that's a very cool & curious little gun.. thanks for sharing :)


regarding automatic shotguns... i think everyone wants one. :lol: they're knda like bacon.



Oodain
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01 Jun 2011, 4:16 pm

the AA12 uses a specially designed recoil absorber in the stock and handle, in conjunction with a new type of internal mechanism the kick is indeed very small considering the firepower.
they also managed to balance the recoil so the upwards drift is greatly reduced.

fire the frag12 rounds and you pack quite the punch,

what's the kick like on that little masterpiece of yours katatonic?


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02 Jun 2011, 12:57 am

Something I built out of M16 and AR15 parts.
It's semi-auto only.

[img][img][800:768]http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc328/30CalM1/IMG_0161.jpg[/img][/img]



Fudo
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02 Jun 2011, 5:44 am

nice job, Raptor. 8)



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02 Jun 2011, 11:43 am

Fudo wrote:
nice job, Raptor. 8)

Thanks!



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02 Jun 2011, 12:49 pm

I know almost nothing about guns, though I should know a lot considering that I have a good aspie friend who is completely obsessed with them. For some reason, though, it all goes one in ear and out the other, as they say. I try to indulge him because no one else appreciates him going on about his current obsession, but I just can't seem to foster an interest in the details of guns. All the same, I do enjoy shooting targets, though I've only done it on a couple of occasions. I hope to do so again some time, though I don't know that I would necessarily purchase a gun myself. Some of them I think look really cool, particularly revolvers. I shot a friend's old muzzle-loader once which I enjoyed immensely. Very smoky. :D


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02 Jun 2011, 2:27 pm

hey, Kaybee :) long time no see. you have been missed :oops:
i've never fired a real gun :( one day though...
i had a spud gun once :lol:



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02 Jun 2011, 2:40 pm

Fudo wrote:
hey, Kaybee :) long time no see. you have been missed :oops:
i've never fired a real gun :( one day though...
i had a spud gun once :lol:

^_^ Thank you. Can't say I've ever shot a potato gun myself. :lol: And I guess it's not so easy to get a gun and find a firing range out your way. I'm sure many would argue that's a good thing, but a little target shooting can be good fun (and quite safe when done responsibly).


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02 Jun 2011, 2:47 pm

you're welcome :)
the spud gun was cool, but so feeble.. my weapon just wasn't big enough :lol:
yes, it's probably for the best this country has few guns, but i would definitely like to go to a firing range & shoot some targets.. ahh well. :)



Hermid
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02 Jun 2011, 11:11 pm

Mdyar wrote:
Maybe interesting.

Gabbin about ballistics:

There was at one time two camps of thought( still pending btw) : one camp believed in "momentum" and the other "kinetic energy," as 'the prime factor' in game stopping power.

In other words the big lumbering one ounce hunk of lead vs. a quarter ounce chunk of lead moving much faster.

(One has more momentum and the latter has more kinetic energy in this experiment.)

Which one penetrates 'more'?

Both projectiles are solid ( i.e. no expansion) with same frontal area .

Hint: The big lead one will swing a ballistic pendulum more than the latter.

There is nothing like a block of gelatin to experiment on here, so I ran it through this on a small scale test with a chronograph and a variable speed pneumatic air rifle .

So the math says kinetic energy( or foot pounds of energy) will drive it deeper, and this experiment confirmed that, despite the heavier projecticle with the more momentum, swinging a pendulum farther, ( but with less kinetic energy).

One caveat is when projectile hits something hard, (i.e. bone) then the balance is turned the other way.


Also logistics, accuracy and firepower(Volume of fire) plays a big role, with an M16(or rifles firing the 5.56) you could Carry more ammo, there was less recoil which gave better accuracy on full auto(Canadian and British FN FALs had the Full auto feature nurfed to maintain accuracy, because the 7.62x51 had massive recoil, M, more then the AK47's 7.62x39mm round), and it had a high rate of fire. The Russians came to a similar conclusion as well and developed the AK-74 which fires a similar bullet to the M16, and replaced the AK47s

Stopping power for the M16 was the same as the M14 because its still going to cause injury, and back then they did not have the light-weight body Armour that we have now. The M16 was not very good at shooting threw walls like the M14 was, However even today they still issue M14's to units.