What should we call "American Indians"?

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OliveOilMom
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02 Apr 2013, 3:21 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I don't see whats wrong with the word "Indian" and I still use it. Almost everybody in Alabama is part some kind of Indian (usually Cherokee, Choctaw or Creek) and that's the word that almost everybody here uses.

If we have to use the term "Native American" or whatever the PC crowd would prefer us to say, then can we start staying "Indian giver" again? I mean it's not like we are saying "Native American giver" and the phrase isn't associated with people from India.......

See where this leads?

I say call people whatever they want to be called, but remember that not every person wants to be called whatever the PC term is. One example is that I have very rarely heard a black person use the phrase "African American" unless they were on TV or using it in some sort of school thing, etc. Every single black person I know uses the term "black" but says they know they are "supposed to say African American". I wonder who that's supposed to prevent offending?


This question has NOTHING to with 'political correctness'.


What the people in question call themselves (they usually identify themselves by the tribe, and not by the race anyway) is not really the issue.

It has to with scientific and semantic correctness.

Whats wrong with "Indian" you ask?

Nothing- if you're talking about a person from Bangalore.

But why call a Choctaw an "Indian"?

The Choctaw did not get green cards and emigrate to our country from India. So isnt it rather silly to label them as being of a nationality that they have no connection to? Even if it doesnt hurt their feelings its still confusing and kinda dumb.

And if you do call them "Indians" then you have to tack on other verbiage to specify which kinda "Indian" you mean: Like "American Indian (as opposed to East or Asian or India, Indian), or Feather Indian (as opposed to Red Dot Indian).

I dont like "Native American" either because all of us non-immigrants are 'natives' to america. The word native is related to "nativity" and other words for 'birth"- it just means that you were born in the place in question.

On the other hand:Aboriginal American, or Indiginous American, are both closer to the mark. I like both.

With Indiginous American you dont have to change the initials on the luggage. So thats the term I lean toward.

So in a science article about(say) prehistoric migrations of peoples, I would use "Indigenous Americans" if I were the person making the rules.

I agree that "Indian" isnt quite in the same category as the N-word, or k*e, or Chinese, or Wop,or like that. "Indian" is ok for conversation. But in publications-especially science articles- some new term is needed IMHO.

I agree that "African American" is a bit unwieldy. For one reason- it creates the problem of what do you call a recent immigrant who was actually born in Africa? But thats a whole other subject.


You wouldnt have to give up saying "Indian giver". We americans still say "penny wise, and pound foolish" two centuries after we broke away from Britian and stopped using British currency. Folks will still know what you mean.


To be honest, most people pretty much get which kind of Indian you mean by the context of what you say.

"There is an Indian burial ground at Moundville" or "Tannehill has this big Indian arts and crafts sale this weekend" is going to cause the person you are saying this to to immediately think American Indian.

"There seems to be a good bit of Indian culture near UAB" or "There is an Indian restaurant that just opened up" also gives you a good clue as to what kind of Indian.

I once had a good friend who was Indian (from India) and he invited me to a bunch of his family things because I was so interested in it. People would know what I meant when I would say something like "I got to go to an Indian dinner party the other day! The food was fabulous!" People knew I didn't mean Cherokee.

Also, most people I know say "Indian" when they mean American Indian or say "Indian guy" or "Indian lady" when they mean somebody from India. It's just a subtle difference, but it's one that most people around here pick up on. Also, because it's so rare to run into an actual for real Indian (Native American Indian that is) that most people will assume you mean somebody is from India if you say they are Indian. It's not really something that somebody goes around bringing up, that somebody is Indian from India. When somebody they know is a for real Indian (as in a whole lot of some particular tribe blood) they pretty much point that out right away, because it's interesting.

One of our friends was a for real Cherokee. Had lived on a reservation some place or other with his dad when he was a kid and had moved to Alabama to get surgery at UAB when he was a teenager to have some part of his ear reattached because it got cut off in a car wreck and he had to have a couple of surgeries on it. Whenever I would fix him up with a friend of mine I would always make it a point to tell the girl beforehand "He's a for real Indian. A full blooded Cherokee, lived on a reservation once and everything" and they were always interested because those of us in Alabama are interested in everything Indian. He always got all the girls because he was just so good looking anyway but he was also so nice, which is a very rare thing to find with that degree of good looking. He's married now with kids. I talk to him on FB sometimes.

So, it's pretty obvious what you mean around here.


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Dillogic
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02 Apr 2013, 3:53 pm

Savages?

(O yeah, I'm terrible.)



DarkRain
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02 Apr 2013, 5:32 pm

I've always thought that "American Indians" was a good name.



naturalplastic
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02 Apr 2013, 10:32 pm

DarkRain wrote:
I've always thought that "American Indians" was a good name.


Its a great name for immigrants from Bangalore, or from Mumbai.

But not for indigenous peoples of the Americas.



OliveOilMom
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02 Apr 2013, 10:36 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
DarkRain wrote:
I've always thought that "American Indians" was a good name.


Its a great name for immigrants from Bangalore, or from Mumbai.

But not for indigenous peoples of the Americas.


Has anybody thought of maybe sending out a survey to all of them asking them what they want to be called or if they even care, rather than have it debated by people who are, most of the time, not of that ethnicity or at least not very much of it?

Why does everything have to be so complicated?


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naturalplastic
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03 Apr 2013, 12:24 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
DarkRain wrote:
I've always thought that "American Indians" was a good name.


Its a great name for immigrants from Bangalore, or from Mumbai.

But not for indigenous peoples of the Americas.


Has anybody thought of maybe sending out a survey to all of them asking them what they want to be called or if they even care, rather than have it debated by people who are, most of the time, not of that ethnicity or at least not very much of it?

Why does everything have to be so complicated?


Exactly my point. Why perpetuate the current needless compexity of having to say phrases like "he is a red dot Indian, and not a feather Indian (or vis versa)" when something like "indigenous American" is simple accurate and to the point?

Columbus made it complicated. Im proposing simplicity. But if you're THAT invested in the existing compexity then thats fine.

1) My assumption is:NOT that folks of Choctaw (or whatever) ancestry are offended by being called "Indian". but that they dont give a damn one way or the other. If they dont give a damn- then why not make life easier by righting the mistake columbus made and make up a new word for them?

If we did your survey and my assumption turned out to be wrong, and they are not only not offended by "indian" but actually are emotioinally invested in KEEPING the label then fine- lets all just keep on beating our heads against the wall and keep calling them after the country that has the Taj Mahal even though that never made any sense.

2) Am into anthropology, and am also an aspie, with an interest in both Asian and in American "Indians". So since I actually think about both groups often- its irritating to my aspie sensibilities that they both perversly have the same damned name. Thats mainly where Im coming from.

3) Here around the nations capital we have many folks of south asian background in every strata of society. AND we have both locals and Hispanics with varying degrees of American Indian ancestry. So even in private converstaion it gets confusing. Nobody gets offended. But why complicate life by perpetuating a 15th centurey mistake in the 21st centurey? The world is getting smaller, and both the nation of India, and americans of indigenous background are going to assert themselves more and more.Its gonna simplify discourse to have more lexical precision - not complicate it. Even had atleast one HS classmate with both kinds of Indian ancestry- and that was back in the seventies.

4) Im more concerned with the word usage in published discourse than with private conversation. Im happy to concede the point that "Indian" is fine for yakking with your nieghbors about their indigenous ancestry if you live in non cosmopolitan corner of the nation where you dont yet have many folks of asian Indian background. And dont have aspie grown up 'little professors' like me to nit pick about it.