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Is "gay Christian" an oxymoron?

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Matrix Glitch
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18 Jul 2022, 7:35 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Why do you think it is that in most cultures around the world throughout recorded history, most people have been uncomfortable with acts of homosexuality?


I'm uncertain of the veracity of that statement, but if true, it could be due to {redacted} like you.


If true, then why has homophobia always been a constant?



Last edited by Cornflake on 19 Jul 2022, 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.: Redacted a personal attack

TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 7:40 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Why do you think it is that in most cultures around the world throughout recorded history, most people have been uncomfortable with acts of homosexuality?


I'm uncertain of the veracity of that statement, but if true, it could be due to {redacted} like you.


If true, then why has homophobia always been a constant?


I'm not convinced that it has been.

However, if it has, the most likely cause would be that LGBT individuals are outnumbered by straight folks. People are tribal and attack those they perceive as different - whether that difference is due to race, gender, religion, sexuality, or whatever else that I'm not thinking of right now. This is the reality.

There's really no excuse for it anymore, though. It's just plain old prejudice. It's quite similar to racial prejudice. People used to use the Bible to justify slavery.


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KimD
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18 Jul 2022, 8:10 pm

No, I don't think it's an oxymoron, but I do think my Catholic friend who's also a lesbian is wasting her time and investing her "faith" in the wrong people. In the decades since she came out to me, there still aren't that many in it who accept and love her the way they would if she were straight--or if she simply told them she was straight.



The Bible was written by humans, translated by humans, re-translated, edited, and tweaked by humans throughout the centuries and regardless of language, in words that have changed in their implicit and even explicit meanings. Taking them as gospel (yeah, I said it) is a fool's errand.

But hey--if it helps you justify unkind and even horrific acts against others "in the name of God," or feel like you have the professor's answer key and the ultimate hall pass, go for it, right?

I have an idea: stop worrying about the nitty-natty details that make little to no difference in the grand scheme and quit relying on someone else's ancient rules of play. Just be a decent person. Open your eyes to the world around you, search your conscience, and engage your own brain for answers in today's world. How can you possibly have time and energy for the latter if you're so deeply absorbed in the former?



Matrix Glitch
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18 Jul 2022, 9:18 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
If you actually read the study, which you obviously haven't, you would see that the suicide rate was not elevated among the nonreligious LGBQ college students.

Most linked articles don't get read, sometimes even the person who posts one. That's why it's a good idea to write a brief summery. Anyways, the article seemed vague because "religion" has a really broad scope.



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18 Jul 2022, 9:24 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Why do you think it is that in most cultures around the world throughout recorded history, most people have been uncomfortable with acts of homosexuality?


I'm uncertain of the veracity of that statement, but if true, it could be due to {redacted} like you.


If true, then why has homophobia always been a constant?


I'm not convinced that it has been.

However, if it has, the most likely cause would be that LGBT individuals are outnumbered by straight folks. People are tribal and attack those they perceive as different - whether that difference is due to race, gender, religion, sexuality, or whatever else that I'm not thinking of right now. This is the reality.

There's really no excuse for it anymore, though. It's just plain old prejudice. It's quite similar to racial prejudice. People used to use the Bible to justify slavery.

I doubt what appears to be a purely instinctual aversion is going to be rewired. But I think there's a difference between being expected to be tolerant and being expected to display LGBT flags everywhere.



TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 9:52 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
If you actually read the study, which you obviously haven't, you would see that the suicide rate was not elevated among the nonreligious LGBQ college students.

Most linked articles don't get read, sometimes even the person who posts one. That's why it's a good idea to write a brief summery. Anyways, the article seemed vague because "religion" has a really broad scope.


I did write a blurb.

It just makes you look silly when you didn't even attempt to read the blurb that I wrote or check the article itself before making a judgment call on it.

You, apparently, don't want to read material that conflicts with your worldview. You probably want to avoid the cognitive dissonance that would result from that. I can sort of relate. I used to do that stuff myself.


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18 Jul 2022, 9:55 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:

I'm not convinced that it has been.

However, if it has, the most likely cause would be that LGBT individuals are outnumbered by straight folks. People are tribal and attack those they perceive as different - whether that difference is due to race, gender, religion, sexuality, or whatever else that I'm not thinking of right now. This is the reality.

There's really no excuse for it anymore, though. It's just plain old prejudice. It's quite similar to racial prejudice. People used to use the Bible to justify slavery.

I doubt what appears to be a purely instinctual aversion is going to be rewired. But I think there's a difference between being expected to be tolerant and being expected to display LGBT flags everywhere.


More and more people are tolerant, though. I don't think this is a "purely instinctual aversion" but one that's caused by the homophobic individual's environment or culture.

Attempting to justify one's prejudice is typical of those who are racist or homophobic, but it's also extremely transparent.


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18 Jul 2022, 10:00 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Why do you think it is that in most cultures around the world throughout recorded history, most people have been uncomfortable with acts of homosexuality?


I'm uncertain of the veracity of that statement, but if true, it could be due to {redacted} like you.


If true, then why has homophobia always been a constant?


I'm not convinced that it has been.

However, if it has, the most likely cause would be that LGBT individuals are outnumbered by straight folks. People are tribal and attack those they perceive as different - whether that difference is due to race, gender, religion, sexuality, or whatever else that I'm not thinking of right now. This is the reality.

There's really no excuse for it anymore, though. It's just plain old prejudice. It's quite similar to racial prejudice. People used to use the Bible to justify slavery.

I doubt what appears to be a purely instinctual aversion is going to be rewired. But I think there's a difference between being expected to be tolerant and being expected to display LGBT flags everywhere.


- I think homosexuality was likely just as prevalent then as it is now. The difference is that people were expected to have children because they needed practical domestic labour from their sons and daughters, as well as heirs in more hierarchical systems. Also there were no antibiotics or birth control, which led to a need for monogamous marriage and resulting puritanism. Religion was used to frighten people into hetero / monogamous marriages by fear of Hell and damnation. This was done to protect societies from a scourge of sexually transmitted diseases, unsupported illegitimate children, poverty, and death.

- No one is expected to display LGBTQ flags anywhere if they don't want to.


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18 Jul 2022, 10:11 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
If you actually read the study, which you obviously haven't, you would see that the suicide rate was not elevated among the nonreligious LGBQ college students.

Most linked articles don't get read, sometimes even the person who posts one. That's why it's a good idea to write a brief summery. Anyways, the article seemed vague because "religion" has a really broad scope.


I did write a blurb.

It just makes you look silly when you didn't even attempt to read the blurb that I wrote or check the article itself before making a judgment call on it.

You, apparently, don't want to read material that conflicts with your worldview. You probably want to avoid the cognitive dissonance that would result from that. I can sort of relate. I used to do that stuff myself.


Try cooling down your hostility a little. I didn't say you didn't write a brief summery, I said that's why it's a good idea to.



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18 Jul 2022, 10:15 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
More and more people are tolerant, though. I don't think this is a "purely instinctual aversion" but one that's caused by the homophobic individual's environment or culture.

Attempting to justify one's prejudice is typical of those who are racist or homophobic, but it's also extremely transparent.


Most people have had an aversion to homosexual acts around the world for centuries. Equating it to racism is a fairly recent advent.



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18 Jul 2022, 10:15 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
If you actually read the study, which you obviously haven't, you would see that the suicide rate was not elevated among the nonreligious LGBQ college students.

Most linked articles don't get read, sometimes even the person who posts one. That's why it's a good idea to write a brief summery. Anyways, the article seemed vague because "religion" has a really broad scope.


I did write a blurb.

It just makes you look silly when you didn't even attempt to read the blurb that I wrote or check the article itself before making a judgment call on it.

You, apparently, don't want to read material that conflicts with your worldview. You probably want to avoid the cognitive dissonance that would result from that. I can sort of relate. I used to do that stuff myself.


Try cooling down your hostility a little. I didn't say you didn't write a brief summery, I said that's why it's a good idea to.


I wasn't being hostile.


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TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 10:20 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
More and more people are tolerant, though. I don't think this is a "purely instinctual aversion" but one that's caused by the homophobic individual's environment or culture.

Attempting to justify one's prejudice is typical of those who are racist or homophobic, but it's also extremely transparent.


Most people have had an aversion to homosexual acts around the world for centuries. Equating it to racism is a fairly recent advent.


I'm not convinced that most people have.

However, if they have, the most likely cause would be that LGBT individuals are outnumbered by straight folks. People are tribal and attack those they perceive as different - whether that difference is due to race, gender, religion, sexuality, or whatever else that I'm not thinking of right now. This is the reality.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 18 Jul 2022, 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Matrix Glitch
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18 Jul 2022, 10:20 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
- I think homosexuality was likely just as prevalent then as it is now. The difference is that people were expected to have children because they needed practical domestic labour from their sons and daughters, as well as heirs in more hierarchical systems. Also there were no antibiotics or birth control, which led to a need for monogamous marriage and resulting puritanism. Religion was used to frighten people into hetero / monogamous marriages by fear of Hell and damnation. This was done to protect societies from a scourge of sexually transmitted diseases, unsupported illegitimate children, poverty, and death.

The only instance I know of is within a certain period of Greco-Roman history when they were at the height of hedonism.
IsabellaLinton wrote:
- No one is expected to display LGBTQ flags anywhere if they don't want to.

Yeah but if they don't want to, don't they stand the chance of being accused of being bigoted monsters?



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18 Jul 2022, 10:23 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
- No one is expected to display LGBTQ flags anywhere if they don't want to.

Yeah but if they don't want to, don't they stand the chance of being accused of being bigoted monsters?


This is utterly absurd.

I don't have a pride flag in my yard and I've never been called a bigot.


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Matrix Glitch
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18 Jul 2022, 10:27 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
- No one is expected to display LGBTQ flags anywhere if they don't want to.

Yeah but if they don't want to, don't they stand the chance of being accused of being bigoted monsters?


This is utterly absurd.

I don't have a pride flag in my yard and I've never been called a bigot.


I'm talking about churches, schools, government buildings and especially businesses. A lot of things that seemed absurd and would never happen in the past, are now taking place.



Last edited by Matrix Glitch on 18 Jul 2022, 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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18 Jul 2022, 10:29 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
- No one is expected to display LGBTQ flags anywhere if they don't want to.

Yeah but if they don't want to, don't they stand the chance of being accused of being bigoted monsters?


This is utterly absurd.

I don't have a pride flag in my yard and I've never been called a bigot.


I'm talking about churches, schools, government buildings and especially businesses. A lot of things that seemed absurd and would never happen in the past, has already taken place.


Slippery slope fallacy


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