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Pascal
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03 Jul 2009, 11:28 pm

At first, I used to admire him, because I did not understand his work, and he seemed to be quite a philosopher. 8)
I have been able to trace most of his sources...big delusion... I don't see him as a genius anymore... :twisted:

Did anyone ever get the feeling his fame was a little exaggerated?


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pakled
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03 Jul 2009, 11:41 pm

If not, then I recently read a 700+-page biography of someone who didn't exist...;) Swiss records, German records, American, etc., can all account for his whereabouts; tens of thousands of people met him, etc.

His theories have been verified by mathemeticians since the very early 20th century. I don't understand them either, but word is, he's the real deal...



Pascal
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04 Jul 2009, 12:33 am

Is someone who plagiarizes and steals other people's ideas, passing them off as his own, real?


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showman616
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04 Jul 2009, 12:42 am

Like all real people he made mistakes.

He was on a roll- building the general theory of relativity.

Before he knew it- he realized his theory could predict the entire lifespan of the Universe!

All ya needed- was to know the initial mass of the univers- plug that figure into his newly minted equations- and viola!

The equations predicted that all of the matter in the universe would expand from a single point- would reach a maximum size- and then stop- and then would collapse. (how big and how long depended solely on how much mass of matter you started with).
But Einstien then wimped out. Everyone knew the Univers wasnt expanding - it just sat there timeless and eternal. So Einstein decided that this precursour of the "big bang theory" that naturally grew out of his own theory had to be wrong. So Einstein invented the "cosmological constant"- a kind mathmatical scaffolding stuck on his own theory to keep the universe the same size.

A few years later the astronomer Hubble discovered that all of the galaxies in the universe were red-shifted- therefore moving awayfrom each other- therefor- the Universe IS expanding!
So Einstien was like that lady who altered her lottery ticket to win 20 dollars- by defacing a ticket that was a real winner of the 5000 dollar jackpot! Even Tiger Woods scratches every now and then.



stevecam
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04 Jul 2009, 1:07 am

I believe Einstein was real, I am sure he wouldn't claim to be the most smartest person there is though

He was just a popular scientist



nara44
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04 Jul 2009, 1:40 am

stevecam wrote:
I believe Einstein was real, I am sure he wouldn't claim to be the most smartest person there is though

He was just a popular scientist



never mind if he was the smartest or how much if his stuff was original (he was the first to admit the help he got from others) ,
the man struck gold,
his vision and theories touched the deepest secrets of the universe and change the way we perceives reality and practice science
sure he missed a few things that looks so obvious to us now but we are talking about discoveries made 100 years ago and when u get such radical and paradigm shifting ideas it is only natural to doubt yourself now and then
searching for the true nature of the universe is not exactly like playing the lottery and there is more to science than getting rich and famous
not many people contributed to humanity as much as Albert
Einstein is supper real
more than that
the man changed reality
i think anyone who can understand the basics of physics and math can read his works and see how amazing it is/



Pascal
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04 Jul 2009, 6:19 am

Here are a few links for those who want to read more, so they can comment

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/nov/11/rorycarroll

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity ... ty_dispute

But it is maybe a bit complicated for those with no scientific background


"....Winterberg was also involved in a dispute relating to the history of general relativity in a controversy over the publication of the general relativity field equations (both Albert Einstein and David Hilbert had published them in a very short time span of one another). In 1997, Leo Corry, Jürgen Renn, and John Stachel published an article in Science entitled "Belated decision in the Hilbert-Einstein priority dispute", arguing that, after looking at the original proofs of the article by Hilbert, that they indicated that Hilbert had not anticipated Einstein's equations.

Winterberg published a refutation of these conclusions in 2004, observing that the galley proofs of Hilbert's articles had been tampered with — part of one page had been cut off. He argued that the removed part of the article contained the equations that Einstein later published and alleged that it was part of a "crude attempt by some unknown individual to falsify the historical record." He alleged that Science had refused to print the article and thus he was forced to publish it in Zeitschrift für Naturforschung. Winterberg's article argued that despite the missing part of the proofs, that the correct crucial Field Equation is still imbedded on other pages of the proofs, in various forms, including Hilbert's variational principle with correct Lagrangian from which the Field Equation is immediately derived. Winterberg presented his findings at the American Physical Society meeting in Tampa, Florida in April 2005...."


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stevecam
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04 Jul 2009, 6:59 am

what makes a person intelligent?



nara44
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04 Jul 2009, 7:57 am

Pascal wrote:
Here are a few links for those who want to read more, so they can comment

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/nov/11/rorycarroll

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity ... ty_dispute

But it is maybe a bit complicated for those with no scientific background


"....Winterberg was also involved in a dispute relating to the history of general relativity in a controversy over the publication of the general relativity field equations (both Albert Einstein and David Hilbert had published them in a very short time span of one another). In 1997, Leo Corry, Jürgen Renn, and John Stachel published an article in Science entitled "Belated decision in the Hilbert-Einstein priority dispute", arguing that, after looking at the original proofs of the article by Hilbert, that they indicated that Hilbert had not anticipated Einstein's equations.

Winterberg published a refutation of these conclusions in 2004, observing that the galley proofs of Hilbert's articles had been tampered with — part of one page had been cut off. He argued that the removed part of the article contained the equations that Einstein later published and alleged that it was part of a "crude attempt by some unknown individual to falsify the historical record." He alleged that Science had refused to print the article and thus he was forced to publish it in Zeitschrift für Naturforschung. Winterberg's article argued that despite the missing part of the proofs, that the correct crucial Field Equation is still imbedded on other pages of the proofs, in various forms, including Hilbert's variational principle with correct Lagrangian from which the Field Equation is immediately derived. Winterberg presented his findings at the American Physical Society meeting in Tampa, Florida in April 2005...."


Hilbert and Lorentz never disputed Einstein credits
as it happened Einstein wasn't the best mathematician and both men helped him a lot in this area but no one ever disputed that the core concept was his
no on doubt that Lorentz transformation supplied the math for Einstein rather abstract ideas
i'v just finished a book by Lorentz on the subject and he himself never doubted Einstein credits
Einstein was the first to acknowledge the importance of Poincaré and others to his work and ideas
No scientist can work alone and no one should rewrite science from the ground up
Each generation stands on the shoulders of it's predecessors



nara44
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04 Jul 2009, 8:18 am

stevecam wrote:
what makes a person intelligent?


The ability to see the connections between different and seemingly unconnected things and separated fields of knowledge
which in turn help to see how the smallest details adds up to the biggest picture
The ability to spot contradictions and doubt what is obvious to anyone else
(i think :D )
In Einstein case he was smart enough to spot some little weird thing and contradictions in what was then classical mechanics
it fair to assume that sooner or later someone else would come up with similar theories as data at his time approached some kind of critical mass
many discoveries are made at almost the same time all around the globe by different people as data accumulate to a certain point where many people can see the next level
yet, the physics of today is in much need of theoretical break through as there was nothing of the Einstein scale for many many years .



twoshots
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04 Jul 2009, 10:39 pm

nara44 wrote:
Hilbert and Lorentz never disputed Einstein credits
as it happened Einstein wasn't the best mathematician and both men helped him a lot in this area but no one ever disputed that the core concept was his
no on doubt that Lorentz transformation supplied the math for Einstein rather abstract ideas
i'v just finished a book by Lorentz on the subject and he himself never doubted Einstein credits
Einstein was the first to acknowledge the importance of Poincaré and others to his work and ideas
No scientist can work alone and no one should rewrite science from the ground up
Each generation stands on the shoulders of it's predecessors

This.

Besides, be it duly pointed out, Einstein actually got the Nobel Prize for his work in quantum mechanics, not relativity, IIRC. He was a great physicist any way you slice it; his fame a bit overblown, but let's face it: he's a lot sexier than Dirac.


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04 Jul 2009, 11:18 pm

Pascal wrote:
At first, I used to admire him, because I did not understand his work, and he seemed to be quite a philosopher. 8)
I have been able to trace most of his sources...big delusion... I don't see him as a genius anymore... :twisted:

Did anyone ever get the feeling his fame was a little exaggerated?


So is that what a genius is?

Someone who has ideas?

Aren't we all delusional when coming up with with something that is new to us?

Please. I'm really getting sick and tired of every scientist and philospher being villified as being delusional just because some kind of esoteric that they haven't found yet is involved.


I guess we should all keep our mouths shut when we feel a certain something that is not "scientific enough to "justify physically"..... :silent:

Must be a trend of some sort.

EDIT: I'm not religious either.


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Nan
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05 Jul 2009, 12:04 am

Pascal wrote:
At first, I used to admire him, because I did not understand his work, and he seemed to be quite a philosopher. 8)
I have been able to trace most of his sources...big delusion... I don't see him as a genius anymore... :twisted:

Did anyone ever get the feeling his fame was a little exaggerated?



the world needs heros, ya know? :wink:



Pascal
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05 Jul 2009, 1:08 am

MissConstrue wrote:
Please. I'm really getting sick and tired of every scientist and philospher being villified as being delusional just because some kind of esoteric that they haven't found yet is involved.

I guess we should all keep our mouths shut when we feel a certain something that is not "scientific enough to "justify physically"..... :silent:



Well get some fresh air and a little rest, :D Cheshire cat,

My point here, is that Albert Einstein presented the theories of Special Relativity and General Relativity in groundbreaking publications that did not include references to the work of others.
And he is getting all the credit for them...
Furthermore his philosophical statements are not absolute original stuff


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Last edited by Pascal on 07 Jul 2009, 7:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

MissConstrue
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05 Jul 2009, 2:15 am

Sorry...I didn't mean to impose on your argument... :(


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05 Jul 2009, 3:06 am

twoshots wrote:
...Einstein actually got the Nobel Prize for his work in quantum mechanics, not relativity, IIRC.

Actually, his Nobel was for his work on the photovoltaic effect; Einstein never believed in quantum mechanics, even after the work of Planck and others. His quote on the topic was, "God does not play dice with the universe."

(In Hawking's later work on quantum black hole theory, he quoted Einstein, then replied, "In fact, it would appear that not only does God play dice with the universe, sometimes He throws them where they can't be seen.")


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