9/11 "truthers" and such

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Okay, i wasn't exactly sure where to put this... But i put my evolution board here, and since this is related to a discussion with the same person i'm putting this here too. Anyway... Remember in the evolution board i said that there was someone at work who doesn't "believe in" evolution?... And who will argue that chimpanzee are monkeys when i say they are apes?... And who believes the myth that darwin said toward the end of his life that he didn't really believe in evolution?... Well.... Today he said that he didn't believe that the planes could have knocked down the twin towers and there was something else going on. Apparently he knows someone who was there, and blah blah blah. We eventually got back to the monkey vs. ape argument, but on the 9/11 thing i couldn't even argue because my brain was just going "WTF?!?!?!?!?! ! JDKHIUFHFIUEWHFIUHJHSDHJSGDEYWIUEY@&&@$^^$&*#EY&#E." And, apparently i'm a "sheep" for "believing" accepted things like evolution and that the twin towers were knocked down by terrorists who hijacked airplanes. So, uh, just give your opinions or whatever.

I hate truther douchebags even more than religious fundies!

Stupid people suck.

I get really offended when people piggy-back this tragedy for their own political agenda.

This is where I have a problem. You see people who are atheists believe that people who follow mainstream religion lack insight, and that they cannot think for themselves, and that they follow blindly what everyone else does. They are "sheep" and just do what society makes them believe is true.

However when someone disagrees with mainstream society about the happenings of 9/11 and outwardly shows contempt to disagree and deny something that society regards as fact, (much like the atheist who goes against religious doctrines) then that person is stupid, unpatriotic, crazy or has his own agendas.

When people hold on to what the government says they should believe, then it is right. But when someone holds on to the beliefs of his religious and cultural group then he is "blind", "stupid" and a "sheep".

Quite a paradox indeed.

For me whether what happened on 9/11, be it true or be it a huge conspiracy, makes no difference. By reacting to the attacks by starting two wars was completely wrong. Neither wars are justified. More people have died by those wars then the combined total of all the people who sadly died on 9/11. So that's how one responds to terror. You kill 3000 of my people I'll kill 100, 000 more of your own. No matter what your take of 9/11 this is surely not justice.

And why did those innocent people who had nothing to do with Osama bin Laden and Sadam Hussein die? Has there been any justification for the war? Have you caught Osama bin Laden? Are there no more terrorist groups in Iraq? Is the Taliban destroyed? NO. No to all these questions.

You see for a religious person not to question the doctrines of his faith and to act "blindly"
makes him stupid. And yet if one poses the question I have, and if one asks "why did America drop 2 atom bombs on Japan, as a payback for Pearl Harbour? That hardly seems like justice..." then they are also stupid and just as blind as those "who can't think for themselves."

Shame I'm the only person to vote no.

Either way I've researched this a bit. The problem with alot of conspiracy theories is I've seen the people who get into them seem to believe ALL of them. Like it's moreso an obsession of theirs. It's mostly just fear mongering.

Alot of them like to argue mostly:

They don't think jet fuel can melt steel. Jet fuel burns at like 1500 or something, steel melts at like 2800 or something. I can't remember the actual statistics on this.

Alot of them just don't seem to think that a bunch of amateurs with box cutters could somehow hijack a plane.

Alot of them also note that the list of terrorists the government claimed to be the hijackers have been found alive in other eastern countries.

Either way, I lost interest in conspiracies/don't care to believe any of them anymore. All it does is cause fear and, really, accomplishes nothing. Either way, there's more than enough proof the government knew of a pending attack and didn't stop it. That's about it.

The truthers believe any of a number of conspiracies, or all of them.

Just a bunch of people unable to cope with the fact that the US isn't magically immune to attack.

My speculation on how the buildings collapsed was, the fire was too hot because it was so big and it melted the steal and it bent and fell down and it knocked down the other floors so therefore the whole building came down. The same happened to the other tower too.

I was told anyway the metal melted because it got weak so it bent and the top building fell and it knocked down the rest of the building. It was like dominos.

Conspiracies require a ridiculous amount of cooperation from everyone involved - the chances of everyone doing their part, doing it competently, then not leaking anything about the conspiracy are very low unless you have a small group of very ideologically committed individuals involved. The probability of the US government being organised and competent enough to pull something off on the level of 9/11 I find to be pretty slim.

No fighter jets were available to intercept because the people of the city of New York, in their wisdom, believed that there was no need to maintain readiness for attack, because no one would dare attack them with anything short of an ICBM. Military aircraft were prohibited by law from flying within a certain (rather large) distance from the city, and the only airbases with active fighter wings were too far from the city to launch an effective intercept in the rather short time between someone realizing something was odd about the flight paths, and the jets actually striking their targets. It may be worth noting that there were F-16s en route to intercept United 93 before its passengers attempted to seize control from their hijackers and crashed the plane.

And yes, the "truther" version of the events of Sept. 11, 2001 does require a massive conspiracy. Someone, in the heart of one of the largest cities on the planet, must have been able to smuggle multiple demolition charges into some of the busiest office buildings in existence without anyone noticing anything odd - and no, no matter what you've seen in the movies, demolition charges for large buildings cannot be concealed in small, light boxes, nor detonated by pressing a tiny remote control from a safe distance. (Let's face it, were that the case, the Knesset would have been dust forty years ago.) Someone else would have had to either force the pilots of four separate aircraft to agree to crash their planes, fully-laden with passengers, into their targets - or, even less plausibly, somehow invent a way to erase the memories of all those passengers after offloading them in a matter of moments, all without letting any clue as to the method leak into neurology journals, in the atmosphere of "publish or perish". (Merely bribing or threatening the passengers could hardly be expected to purchase the silence of hundreds of people for going on a decade now - heck, in the Watergate case, they couldn't keep a conspiracy with less than a dozen members quiet for more than six months!)

It always founders on the shores of human behavior. You'd think those of us who have been forced to spend our lives studying humans would be less vulnerable to such silliness...

Osama bin Laden talked about it in a tape before 9/11 happened. He didn't even expect the towers to collapse.