If a tree falls in the forest.....

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......and no one is around to hear it.......

......the potential energy contained in the standing tree would be converted to kinetic energy as the tree falls. This kinetic energy would then create friction with the air molecules the tree is passing through, creating vibrations in the form of longitudinal shock waves in the air.

These vibrations are known as sound waves because the receptors contained in the ears of multicellular organisms interpret these vibrations as sound. However, despite what we humans choose to call these vibrations, in science we know that this process will always occur under these circumstances because the Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, and we have established that an energy transfer has taken place in the first part of the riddle ("...a tree falls...").

Thus the kinetic energy absorbed by the friction of the falling tree cannot be consumed, but rather must be converted into mechanical energy in the form of shock waves. To theorize that this process would not occur simply due to a lack of human observation is not only illogical, but it simply defies all applicable laws of physics.

In short: would sound be produced? Yes. Would it be interpreted by human ears? Obviously not, as this question was answered in the second part of the riddle ("...and no one is around to hear it...").

Argue all you want; my logic is undeniable.

Last edited by stickboy26 on 03 Aug 2010, 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

animals prolly heard it though.
humans aren't the only things with ears

LOL true, I had thought of that. But I figured it irrelevant in the grand scheme of things so I didn't go off into that.
However I did recognize sound as being registered by all multicellular organisms..... thus including much more than just humans

Not necessarily. Are radio waves also "sound" even *before* they are received and made audible?

A deaf person can feel vibrations, but there is no actual sound until vibrations are properly routed on into the brain.

...but, but!! in a quantum interpretation the state of the tree won't be resolved until it is observed (heard), and if it isn't observed then the tree is in a mixed quantum state of being up and down "at the same time" (sorta), so you can't say that it's fallen. So IOW, if there's no observer, then the state is never resolved, and the sound never exists.

OTOH, in the many-worlds interpretation, the sound happens whether an observer is present or not.

I not sure how animals fit into the QM interpretation, but it's a good point.

if a tree falls in the forest...

...the tank needs to pick up his game.

-.-

I've never understood why people think that's a hard question! Of course it makes a bloody sound!

If I punch you in your face while your eyes are closed, does it hurt?

Win.

I think the point of the question "if a tree falls in the forest, what sound does it make?" is to make one realise that there are two simultaneous "streams of consciousness" occurring. One by which we experience our own consciousness, and another one which has it's own conscious, but it is separate.

An example. At this very instant in some place on earth there is a cow grazing in a field. At this moment I am typing on my computer but because our consciousness are separate, in essence I do not exist to the cow, and the cow does not exist to me. However it is a fact that we both exist. So to answer the question. If you see and experience a tree falling in the forest, that reality of the tree falling and you experiencing, means you hear the sound it makes. A roar, a big thump, whatever. But if you do not experience the tree falling, in essence the tree makes no sound, because for you the tree doesn't exist. If you realise that the tree exists despite this, you have reached a higher state of consciousness.

If I'm not mistaken this is a Bhuddist saying, and it is intended so that if one ponders over this point one will reach a higher state of consciousness by believing in God. For we cannot "experience" God, but it does not mean a God doesn't exist.

yes

"A several ton mass moves position by several metres within a few thousand kilometres of you. How do you propose not to be affected within a fraction of a second?"

tsunami

No, because radio waves are light.

If a radio tower sends a broadcast, and nobody is around to tune in, it has still sent the broadcast.
Likewise, sound = vibrations in the air. Not the aural perception of those waves.

True, radio waves are electromagnetic radiation and travel in the form of transverse waves, as is visible light. Sound waves are a form of mechanical energy caused by a disturbance in the air, and travel as longitudinal (compressional) waves, much like a tsunami wave in water. EM radiation and sound are 2 totally different animals.

And speaking of which.... if a megathrust earthquake happens undersea and no one is close enough to feel it, it still produces a shock wave and a tsunami will still hit land somewhere! Same principle.

It depends upon the definition of "sound". The waves would always be produced, but do they classify as sound if they're not heard?

My head would explode for thinking about the answer like that guy did in Scanners (1981)