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Fnord
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11 Jul 2011, 10:53 pm

[rant]

I had thought at first to start this thread in the General Autism Discussion forum, but for reasons that may be obvious, it seems to fit better in Random discussion.

Are you a victim of discrimination, marginalization, or violence?

I mean, if you are currently undergoing some form of social or physical assault from others, then you are definitely a victim and should do something about it.

But what if these assaults occurred ten, twenty, or even thirty years ago, and not since then?

Are you still a victim if childhood bullying, even though it most recently occurred at half your age? What if a relative beat you when you were five, and no one has beaten you in the 25 years since then?

(I know ... I'm violating my own general rule against positing hypothetical situations ... please bear with me ...)

If you were discriminated against on a job that you left five years ago, are you still being discriminated against?

I guess my whole point is that I read a lot of posts where people will cite their poor childhood, rotten former bosses, and past public maltreatment as the reasons why they are what they are today.

But since all of that happened in the past, why do they still act as if it were still happening today? What have they been doing with themselves in the intervening years? Why have they not "walked away from the train wreck" and got on with their lives?

What is it about past experiences that inspires some people to simply stop trying?

[/rant]



CockneyRebel
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12 Jul 2011, 12:10 am

I'm a survivor. I've survived a lot of things. I might be a victim as well. I see myself as a survivor though. Some days are better than others.


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LiendaBalla
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12 Jul 2011, 12:29 am

Can't answer you, sorry.



Last edited by LiendaBalla on 12 Jul 2011, 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Acacia
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12 Jul 2011, 12:30 am

Fnord wrote:
[rant]
Are you a victim of discrimination, marginalization, or violence?
................
What is it about past experiences that inspires some people to simply stop trying?
[/rant]

First question: yes. although not to any extreme degree. I've never really thought of myself as a "victim", although I occasionally do feel sorry for myself. But that's an unrelated self-esteem issue.

Second question: The accumulated weight of stress becomes to much for them and they collapse. I've run across a number of people who have silently suffered many crimes and abuses earlier in their lives. Some had developed emotional disorders and "trying" became something uncomfortable or difficult to face. But of course, in one or two cases, they actually had a nervous breakdown and totally stopped trying. It seems rather intuitive that if a person is being victimized to such a degree, they will suffer permanent physical or psychological damage from those experiences and literally be unable to continue "trying".


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League_Girl
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12 Jul 2011, 12:51 am

I only see myself a victim during situations when I am. I will always be a victim in those situations. Right now I am not a victim. I will be a victim if my husband decides to beat me. I am not a victim if my baby spits up on me or scratches me or pinches me with his feet.

What stops people from trying? Fear I'm assuming. Fear of failing or being picked on, fear of rejection or fear of screwing up, fear of facing the same issues again.

Why are people acting like what happened in the past that is still happening today? Grudges and sometimes being bullied can screw up someone's mind. People are finally realizing today that bullying is not something that should be ignored and get used to and toughen up. People are realizing now something needs to be done about it. I am sure they have always realized it and I am just noticing it because of the internet. Plus I have seen it in Seventeen too. I am lucky bullying didn't screw me all up and make me into another person.



marshall
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12 Jul 2011, 1:10 am

No. I am what I am. I struggle in ways others do not understand nor give credit to. It does not make me anything though. I simply exist. I'm not always sure whether existence is worth the effort though.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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12 Jul 2011, 1:32 am

I am not a victim, but I'd be lying if I said my past didn't affect how I behaved and reacted in the present.


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Moog
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12 Jul 2011, 3:23 am

Fnord wrote:
[rant]

I had thought at first to start this thread in the General Autism Discussion forum, but for reasons that may be obvious, it seems to fit better in Random discussion.

Are you a victim of discrimination, marginalization, or violence?

I mean, if you are currently undergoing some form of social or physical assault from others, then you are definitely a victim and should do something about it.

But what if these assaults occurred ten, twenty, or even thirty years ago, and not since then?

Are you still a victim if childhood bullying, even though it most recently occurred at half your age? What if a relative beat you when you were five, and no one has beaten you in the 25 years since then?

(I know ... I'm violating my own general rule against positing hypothetical situations ... please bear with me ...)

If you were discriminated against on a job that you left five years ago, are you still being discriminated against?

I guess my whole point is that I read a lot of posts where people will cite their poor childhood, rotten former bosses, and past public maltreatment as the reasons why they are what they are today.

But since all of that happened in the past, why do they still act as if it were still happening today? What have they been doing with themselves in the intervening years? Why have they not "walked away from the train wreck" and got on with their lives?

What is it about past experiences that inspires some people to simply stop trying?

[/rant]


Maybe you're talking about learned helplessness, which you can probably google.

I saw a thing about elephants tethered to a spike in the ground for a long time, and even when the tether was removed, they still had a habit of roaming a very small area around them.

The past lays the patterns for the future.

A lot of the time, the patterns we follow are like water to fish. Our habits are generally automatic and unconscious.

Through practices like meditation, we can train ourselves to bring more awareness to our every thought, feeling and action, and open up our options.

The unexamined life isn't worth living.


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ScientistOfSound
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12 Jul 2011, 4:07 am

I was a victim, until I fought back. Then I was no longer a victim lol.



chrissyrun
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12 Jul 2011, 9:44 am

I am a victim whenever I get angry and let my family push my buttons. A victim of myself.



Fnord
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12 Jul 2011, 10:26 am

Thank you for your astute observations:

Acacia wrote:
The accumulated weight of stress becomes to much for them and they collapse. I've run across a number of people who have silently suffered many crimes and abuses earlier in their lives. Some had developed emotional disorders and "trying" became something uncomfortable or difficult to face. But of course, in one or two cases, they actually had a nervous breakdown and totally stopped trying. It seems rather intuitive that if a person is being victimized to such a degree, they will suffer permanent physical or psychological damage from those experiences and literally be unable to continue "trying".


League_Girl wrote:
What stops people from trying? Fear I'm assuming. Fear of failing or being picked on, fear of rejection or fear of screwing up, fear of facing the same issues again. Why are people acting like what happened in the past that is still happening today? Grudges and sometimes being bullied can screw up someone's mind...


Moog wrote:
Maybe you're talking about learned helplessness, which you can probably google. I saw a thing about elephants tethered to a spike in the ground for a long time, and even when the tether was removed, they still had a habit of roaming a very small area around them. The past lays the patterns for the future...


ChrissyRun wrote:
I am a victim whenever I get angry and let my family push my buttons. A victim of myself.


Thank you for your encouraging words:

CockneyRebel wrote:
I'm a survivor. I've survived a lot of things. I might be a victim as well. I see myself as a survivor though. Some days are better than others.


Thank you for providing a solution:

ScientistOfSound wrote:
I was a victim, until I fought back.


Victimhood is being locked in to a stress-filled pattern of learned fear and hopelessness. It is only when the resolve is taken to stand up and fight back that victimhood itself is defeated.

"So often-times it happens that we live our lives in chains, and we never even know we have the key." -- The Eagles, "Already Gone"


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richardbenson
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12 Jul 2011, 11:26 pm

Sometimes, Like right now when I'm over at my moms house i'll remember all the F-edup sh-t that my stepdad did to me, but then once i relise I have an escape (going back to california) it doesnt play on my emotions all to much.

I'm pretty shure most of my anxiety is due to my childhood, and I probably should really take care of it someday. Either by medication, or some form of therapy.

I guess i'm just waiting for the right moment


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the_curmudge
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13 Jul 2011, 11:50 am

Childhood victimization cannot be erased: it's going to affect one's adult life. I was victimized as a child, and although I don't think it informs my everyday life, it does affect my response to crises. If someone tries to bully me now, say, I may fall back into the role of feeling weak and helpless or I may fight back super hard, but in either case I won't have a normal, balanced adult response. I don't even know what that would be, so it's not in my power to choose it over what is a basic fight-or-flight response.



MidlifeAspie
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13 Jul 2011, 3:16 pm

richardbenson wrote:
I probably should really take care of it someday. Either by medication, or some form of therapy.

I guess i'm just waiting for the right moment


Congratulations on coming to the difficult conclusion that you require medication and therapy. There is no moment that is better than the current moment, go out and get the help you so badly need.



richardbenson
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13 Jul 2011, 3:56 pm

Your just being sarcastic. you do put up a good guy front here however


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dougn
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14 Jul 2011, 1:08 am

I've never stopped trying, but trying can be exhausting after years and years of it. Sometimes it's hard to have the energy and motivation to keep it up.