How many people are seriously afraid of firearms?

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This appears to be 2002-2004 for the UK data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

I can find murder rates in UK for 2010 (604), but not firearms figures.

This gives up to date US data and you can access all the data
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... e-us-state

Anyway, I give up too. Its the order of magnitude comparisons I find astonishing whether, its 50 times, 100 times or 150 times.

Total homicide rates, 2010:

South Africa: 34 per 100,000
US: 5 per 100,000
UK: 1.17 per 100,000
Japan: .46 er 100,000

[edit: stats from UNODC, United Nations Office of Drugs n Crime]
[edit: link to UN pdf]


There's a map, too that breaks down US murder by state. England is comparable to the safer US states (Iowa), Scotland is a little more violent, (comp to nebraska, oregon) Actually, New Hampshire, Iowa and Vermont are the least killingest US states. Louisiana the most killer.

p.s. it's stupid hard to get guns in Japan.

Last edited by Burnbridge on 29 Nov 2011, 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's hard to see if four extra murders per 100,000 people tells much in regards to whether an object is much of a factor.

We were talking about firearms deaths that chart includes all homicide -

2002 data is a long time ago so I shouldnt have used that original chart, but "UK firearms deaths 2010" search gives BBC, Guardian and Independent data that refer to 2008 firearms death stats latest (you'd think a 2010 number of UK firearm deaths would be easy to find).

42 UK firearms deaths in 2008. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... e-us-state
9,528 from firearms deaths US in 2008;

= 45 times in 2008

Asp-Z you get exactly the same if express it as per 100,000, then do the ratio.

"Guns don't kill people, idiot with guns kill people"

I love guns/weapons of all types (minus bio-weapons, that s**t is scary). I am a very nonviolent person. Guess how many times I got in trouble back in HS?

Those figures are total homicide rates, not just firearms. In order to talk about the object, giving firearms rate is an important piece of information. The firearms rate in UK, within that total homicide, is at least magnitude smaller.

Asp-Z regards your comment about being able to do anything you like with stats.

Please digest what Dillogic just said. Do you have any reaction to it, based on understanding of statistics and number literacy?

This goes down with the later stats (I gave you 2002), but the point is the same. The orders of magnitude are astonishing to me.

This thread is like an energizer battery, it keeps going and going... But it's fascinating none-the-less. Okay, back to lurking mode I go.

Guns don't randomly walk down streets and kill people, people point them at others to inflict fear.

Am I wrong about that?

And sometimes they point them at an animal to inflict dinner.

Frances

Well, for a minute, I was wondering what the total homicide rates were, so that we could see whether possession of firearms increased the homicide rate or just the "homicide-by-firearms" rate.

The link up there to the UNDOC pdf with 2010 stats report has a chart that shows % of firearms death. For the US, it's about 60%, for the UK it's about 30%.

So,
total homicide"
US: 5 per 100,000
UK: 1.17 per 100,000

and of that, firearms homicide:
US: 3 per 100,000
UK: .351 per 100,000

-
Another way to say this is "yes, less access to firearms means people will still kill each other, just not with guns."

But So an 8 times increase in firearms homicide only makes a 4.2 times increase in the overall homicide rate ... (does that mean that access to firearms doubles the murder rate?)

This only holds if you ignore other (cultural) variables that might account for the increase. And honestly, the US is pretty low on the list compared to Africa, Central and South Americas, and the former Soviet Bloc. The next question to look at would be whether those regions with the higher kill ratios have any gun restrictions at all (or functional governments), to see if it's a general trend or just a US/UK cultural disparity.

But also, who on average is still getting killed? The criminals that kill each others in knife attacks (who will still do so, if they have easier access to guns) or people not involved in crime.

I just find this really hard. I'm totally revolted by guns and by those who celebrate them. I simply cant see how people can love them and jump up and down on forums saying they f*****g love them with glee.

Even if you deeply believe they make your loved ones safer, how can people celebrate them? Does anyone argue for not controlling semi-automatic weapons like those used in Hungerford? (puts hands on ears)

My view is 'US-centric'? I've never even been to the US. Armed robberies happen frequently in major European cities such as Marseille, Amsterdam and Moscow. Look it up. Just because you don't know anyone who was held up at gunpoint doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

In fact, it's happening right in your backyard (link)

It doesn't happen. Knifepoint maybe, not gunpoint. I'm not even reading a Daily Mail article.

Look at the rate of gun crime in Switzerland, a gun country with the fifth highest gun ownership in the world. It's very, very different from the US picture.

That's right, if you just stick your head in the sand it doesn't happen and everything's bliss. Keep denying the facts and see the world for what you want it to be instead of for what it really is.