Is this considered offensive?

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I plan to go on a family fishing trip on my dads boats within the next week, we have been doing this every june for the past 5 years and its made some of the only good memories with my parents that I have. My brother, which i live with currently, wants to invite his girlfriend to go with us. I told him he should consider weather she should go or not because she may not enjoy a 4 day hardcore fishing trip, when we don't even know if she gets sea sick or not. A rough day in the gulf stream is no place for the women and children I say. He freaked out, went and broke some of my personal items and generally threw a tantrum when i refused to apologize for "making her unwelcome". I assured him it wasn't personal and I really just wanted it to be like the old days, with just me and him and my dad on the boat. He just kept saying that there's no reason he shouldn't be allowed to bring his girlfriend, and I just couldn't understand because i had never had a girlfriend and i never will because I'm so inconsiderate. After i got a little worked up I told him he should stop dragging his girlfriend along with him for everything he does, and that she wouldn't expect him to go shoe shopping with her girlfriends as an example, and that really set him off.

So although I made it clear that I don't want her to go with us, I feel like I have some reasoning behind it. I can see why he would be upset, but I don't see why i shouldn't be upset for thinking that she is always welcome only by association? I'm not welcome at allot of things that she does, so why should she automatically be allowed to creep into everything that I do with my brother? This trip is a big deal to me, I know to her its only some hokey little "vacation" with her boyfriends parents. Fishing the mahi season is a passion to me, to her its just gonna be a boring day of sitting on the boat is how I feel.

Any input welcome, if you think I'm being an a**hole please explain.

I don't see anything wrong with what you did. I probably would feel the same way if I were in your situation.

In his defense, I did make it blatantly clear that she is not welcome in my opinion. And she practically lives at this house with us, she is usually nice to me, I'm still not comfortable around her and I always feel like she thinks I'm a bad guy though. She refuses to bring any girlfriends over because she thinks I'm not worthy of meeting them, that I will only f**k them over like the last ones she brought over (which all 3 royally f****d me over IMO). A little off subject, but worth considering.

I'd be offended if somebody directed that comment towards me, but that's only because of my gender issues. I identify as male and I like to do male things. Your brother's girlfriend might not be offended, because she might be a completely different person from me. On the other hand, she might be offended as well. I guess that you'll have to ask her personally if that offends her.

She said on the phone she was upset, but that's just what i was told. Honestly I'm more concerned with how my brother feels, because seriously no offense to his ole lady, but she has the IQ level of a child. If she was upset, it would be a waist of my breath trying to explain to her what i even mean by what im saying.

Yeah, that is pretty rude, especially your sexist opinions about the gulf being only a place for TOUGH MEN . I read your post as being more along the lines of "Are you sure she'll want to go? Maybe she'll get sea sick? Does she like fishing?" but then I saw that. Then I read your post about how you plainly said she wasn't welcome. A lot of assumptions on your part when your brother just wants to take along someone close to him.

Agreed.

Yea, I see your point, but i feel like you don't see mine. This s**t is sacred to me, when i say its no place for women and children (this is just a saying that i use pretty commonly BTW) I mean that its really only enjoyable if you truly are into it, because it can be downright miserable sometimes, but its worth it if you truly have a desire to be there. I assume that she does not feel this way, and I think I can justly do so. It is not, in my opinion, wrong to assume that most women (and most men as well honestly) will not be into it the way i am just like there are many hobbies that men typically don't enjoy as commonly as women.

Please don't pull out the sexist card, because its just stupid to say men and women think the same. Its well proven that we don't.

I think that sexism needs to die and that people should feel free to do whatever they want, no matter what's between their legs.

Well i think the only part that was rude that you said it wasn't a place for women, but i do get your point of view, i mean she could also come along on the trip and get bored and ruin everything or make it really akward, i think it would be better if you knew her first right? I hope i got it right, if i had a brother who would suddenly invite his girlfriend to a trip that we always used to go on together i would say no it doesn't work like that :o Especially when i don't know her much or if she gets seasick. But i do agree that everyone should be able to do what they want, with limits though, i mean you can't just ruin stuff for others just because its what you want to do o_o But i'm sure everyone understands that.

Hm. I guess I missed the "no place for women" part.

I understand the part where you just want it to be just like old times though.

It did sound sexist when you said fishing on the gulf stream was no place for women.

I do get your point, BillyJoe. I can't say if it's offensive as I come off as offensive myself quite often. Still, I understand why you don't want any "intruders" in something that is sort of a special tradition for you.
I've experienced a very similar thing. When you have these traditional bonding activities with your closest people, it is really upsetting if someone else "intrudes", especially if that someone can ruin the experience by dismissing it's importance, distracting the attention of the traditional members of the group or requiring changes to accommodate them. And even if they end up enjoying the activities just as well as you do, there's still a new person in a group and that changes the dynamics and the experience all together.
So yes, I understand why you're upset and I do think that your brother should consider your feelings too. Honestly, I think the girlfriend should be more understanding too. I would never try to intrude into that kind of special and traditional bonding activities. Even in a relationship, a person should still be able to keep some things to themselves.

I think that if the girls going to stay on the scene, you should let her try. Try to work out a way that she can get an idea of what it's like first. Like a 1 day trial. It could work out to be a good investment of time. The truth is, although you were sexist to suggest she wouldn't like it, the actual fact is she probably wouldn't like it. Hell i wouldn't like it. Give her a chance to see what it's like and it might end up solving your problem for good.


The only thing, you need to stop being so negative towards her.

You don't care about her, you only care about you own feelings . You're making excuses. I remember a few years back and my dad stopped at mine briefly and try as much as i wanted, i couldn't quite get over the annoyance at the way he'd get in my way and ruin my routines. Except i KNEW that it was my problem and not my dads, in all honesty my dad was bending over backwards to not cause any problems, i was having an irrational reaction to my change in routine. It is intolerant.

Consider it another way, how would you like to be excluded the way his girlfriend is? It doesn't matter that she wouldn't like it, she'll still get it into her head that she's not liked, it's still not a nice thing to do + that negative atmosphere is not a nice thing to have to endure. Let her try, let it be her decision to not want to come along (cuz in all honesty, who'd want to go on a 5 day fishing trip?), in the long run you'll solve a lot of problems. If you think about it now how to do it you might be able to limit her interference to 1 day or maybe even just half a day.

I apologized, i was a little over the top because i was pissed off about my brother breaking my s**t. I forget that i cant talk like a normally do on this forum, everyone takes things so seriously. The no place for women and children thing is a common saying, mostly used jokingly.

Plus now after the fact she says she only wanted to go out one day with us anyways. would have been nice to know... Shes been out with us on a flat calm day only a few miles offshore before, we stopped at the beach. It was a nice boating/lite fishing day. i was trying to tell this is not going to be like that at all, seas are gona be 3-5ft and we still don't know if she gets sea sick or not. so, if she ruins just one day its no big deal though.