Trouble With a Panhandler

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This morning I was involved in an incident that could have ended with someone dead.

I stopped at a convenience store on my way to work. A wild-eyed panhandler approached me and started begging. I said, "No" and went into the store. Seeing the storekeeper, I hooked a thumb over my shoulder and said, "Panhandler". The security guard went outside to shoo the panhandler away.

The next thing I know, the panhandler comes charging in and accuses me of lying. Then he asks, "Why would I be begging money from you?" along with some profanity and a few more insults.

Then the security guard drew his sidearm and shouted "Get out of here!"

The panhandler kicked at the door and the store windows, and was still screaming obscenities as he dodged traffic to cross the street.

I completed my transaction, left my phone numbers, and continued on my way in to work.

...

Now I'll probably have to visit the city police and swear out a statement. Why are irrational people allowed to run loose? If they were all rounded up and kept somewhere, then honest, sane people would not feel the need to arm themselves, and there would likely be fewer shootings of homeless people.

I'm applying for a carry license.

Theoretically (yes, theoretically), the store clerk could have felt threatened by the panhandler, and shot him.

Then there's the potential that the panhandler had a gun. Or a knife. And might be too willing to use said gun/knife.

In real life, this doesn't happen too often. Most often, it happens similar to how Fnord portrayed it: Angry store clerk, angry panhandler, the possibility of a broken window.

I live in NYC, so I run into panhandlers all the time. The thing to do is to ignore them respectfully. Or just say a polite "No, I don't have any money" or something of that nature.

Well, that's one good about where I live. Don't see many panhandlers, if any. If you do, they're not usually the violent type.

Many homeless people suffer from mental illness and/or substance addictions and could be doing so much better if they got the right kind of help. But society tends to think they're worthless or completely at fault... unless they commit murder, and then it's, "they couldn't help it, they have a illness and had no clue what they were doing". Yeah, right.

Panhandlers and homeless people are known to carry knives and other weapons - even handguns. Thus, the safest assumption for all is to assume that panhandlers are potentially dangerous, and if one is acting irrationally and making threats, then he or she is likely an armed threat.

Draw down on someone threatening violence?

Damn right I would!

I had to read the thread, first of all to see what a "panhandler" is.

I can see how this could have been a threatening situation. However, I know nothing about guns or gun culture so I am not very well equipped to opinionate.

However, I went into Manchester city centre today. I don't often go there because I have no need to really. But I was also approached by a beggar. The same on approached me twice in two separate locations. As I was sitting there I actually thought to myself how fortunate I am to live in an area that I feel relatively safe in. If I had have been anywhere else in the world or maybe even anywhere else in England I might have felt vulnerable.

Maybe it was because I was on familiar ground.

The panhandler situation in my area is growing out of control, there are several stores I refuse to stop at anymore due to the management allowing or simply not doing anything to remove them from the property. The panhandlers there are quite vocal and follow customers into the store, basically intimidating them into giving them money. There are window washers who stand at the nearby intersections and the guy who spent years panhandling there was always a jovial fellow, he is gone and the man there now I have recently witnessed yelling and becoming belligerent with drivers who refuse to give him money, people shouldn't have to deal with that yet the police have yet to run him off as he was there yesterday, flipping a woman off who simply had her windows rolled-up and did not give him change after he washed her windows.

This is so weird because I just got home from being freaking stalked by a homeless man who had turned back around (from passing me by in the opposite direction) and started following me, and even started running after me. It's a longer story but it eventually involved running across busy traffic and things got insane. I was freaking out until I finally lost him when I got to a busier street and could run around a corner when some large buses obscured his view of me. I didn't even have any kind of initial interaction with this guy -- no conversation, nothing. He initially was just passing by me and then twenty yards on something told me to glance back -- and he had turned around and was heading back my way, then came all the stuff like crossing streets in traffic and he was on my tail for the next mile and a half until I got to the busier street.

I was FREAKED OUT. I'm still feeling shaken. I was going to make a post in the Haven, but I thought, well, I'm okay, it's not like anything happened, but as a friend just said on the phone just now, there are people out there "waiting for another person to make a mistake", like be in the wrong place at the wrong time and get targeted. This guy just kind of glommed onto me and seriously he doubled back and ran across traffic to follow me for fully a mile and half while I'm running with my phone charge failing and wondering if I should flag down a car or what.

At the same time I feel terrible for the guy per se, because I do think he must be quite severely mentally ill -- when he first walked past, the smell of soiling himself ( a lot, for a long time without cleansing) was overwhelming; he was in a very, very bad way. But that made it even more unsettling that he was following me, because such a person could be very unpredictable in what he thought he was going to do if he had caught up to me completely.

I was lucky there was a busier area to get lost among people and traffic, but I'm still really freaked out. This happened just this evening as I was coming back from a more peaceful spot --- where I go for some peace!

My standard response to all panhandlers is, "I don't carry cash" like dcj123 mentioned, regardless of what is in my wallet. Some have cussed back at me, but that's about it. I always report them to store clerks, security, et cetera, but I try to be discreet about it so they don't know who did it.
Fortunatly we don't have the "window washers" around my area, but I live on a street that is a bus route for the same line that passes the "bum row" downtown as it's called locally, so a lot of homeless staying at the Rescue Mission and Samatrian House will beg money off the streets, board the bus, and ride into my neighbourhood to shop at nearby liquor and marijuana stores. I'm starting to think that the members of the public who show these panhandlers financial "compassion" are just as bad as those who go around begging for the money.

Yes, I've usually never had any problems at all when someone has approached me for money, and I've said I don't carry cash -- it's actually the truth too; I do everything with a debit card.

It's when things turn bizarre or aggressive though, like the guy who didn't quit following me earlier. He hadn't even asked me for anything, he just turned back and started stalking me. I started to wonder why me, as there were other people about that he could have chosen to follow. Although I probably have the answer (in my case I'm short, female and look like I could easily be mugged).

We're having problems up in the city where I Live with beggars becoming aggressive it was in the paper only last week, people feel threatened by them.

Aggressive behavior among panhandlers seems to be growing. It's as if they want someone to hurt them ... maybe to file suit and win cash awards from people who were only trying to defend themselves.

A bouncer told me that he's seeing more aggressive behavior from street people because sources for cocaine are drying up, so heroin and meth (sometimes mixed together) are becoming the drugs of choice.

So maybe the panhandler went off on me because my refusal to give him money meant that he would not be able to get a "fix" as soon as he wanted ... he did seem to be a little "twitchy" ...

I would suggest that when you get a gun you also get something like a tazer if you can legally do that or pepper spray or something else as well. I say this because you may be in a situation that isn't to the point where you need to shoot someone yet, but seems to be going that way fast, and you want to incapacitate them or at least stop them for a minute so you can get out of there, rather than shoot. I don't suggest using this instead of the gun, but in situations where a gun is a bit too much but you still need something.

You don't pull a gun on someone you do not intend to shoot. You could be in a situation where you need to defend yourself but you would be charged with attempted murder (or murder/manslaughter) if you did shoot them, but you need to do something. A tazer or pepper spray is a good option for that, but never to be used instead of a gun.

Also, get some training in how to use both and when to use both. Go to the range, take some classes where you have drills and scenarios, etc. That way if you ever need to use either, you will be able to without risking your freedom.

We have no bums here at all, but I live in a very small town. There are some guys who look like they are from a mission who hang out in front of the junk store that is run by this church, but I think the preacher puts them to work or something. I don't know where he brings them from, but they are there whenever the store is open. Nobody begs here or anything like that and nobody sleeps outside unless they are doing it for fun or a school or scout project or something, or they accidentally fell asleep. But, there were some in Birmingham. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great either. I never had a situation like your's but a guy tried to mug me once. He wasn't homeless, it was guys in their late teens or early 20s. They didn't look homeless. I'm sure they weren't. But if that kind of thing goes on where you are, you need to carry something for sure.

Also, I'd never pull a gun on somebody as a warning. Cops do this, but they are trained for it. They also have a bit more leeway than me and you do. That is why I suggested a tazer or spray, if you ever felt the need to just draw down and warn you should use that instead, unless you are sure the other person is armed.

I'm pretty tired tonight, so I've rambled. Glad you are ok, and I have a site I think you should look at. You probably already know this stuff, but it's got some good info there. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

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I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA.

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com

As a Native American Spiritualist I'm not permitted to own or carry any type of projectile-firing gun. I have invested in a tazer and can of Mace, however. At home I also keep a large wrench stashed in a strategic place in case it was ever needed for an intruder. In my state we have a "make my day" law where residents are permitted to use lethal force on any home invaders when they feel in danger of death or bodily harm after a confirmed brake-in or inside trespass.
At one time I would have felt my two medals in wresting might be ample defence, but I'm getting older by the day.