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Raleigh
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21 Jun 2019, 8:08 pm

Steel?

It is the "All Steel Bicycle" after all.
Don't think they thought that motto through.
Steel seat or tyres would be decidedly uncomfortable.


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cathylynn
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21 Jun 2019, 8:18 pm

good to see you, raleigh. things have been quiet here. i am searching for an outpatient nurse job. wishing you some fun.



Raleigh
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21 Jun 2019, 8:20 pm

Good luck with the job search


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cberg
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21 Jun 2019, 8:27 pm

I'm searching for another mapping geek job. Hoping to wind up working with a bunch more survey technology.


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Raleigh
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21 Jun 2019, 8:37 pm

I'm after a job testing mattresses.


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IsabellaLinton
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21 Jun 2019, 8:41 pm

I'm still me.



Raleigh
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21 Jun 2019, 8:47 pm

I'm not me anymore. I'm a hardware store.

- Inspector Gadget


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Mountain Goat
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21 Jun 2019, 9:28 pm

Steel! Haha... There were many diffeeent types of steel from the basic carbon steels also known as mild steels to the alloys of steel, the most popular being chromium and molybdenum added to the steel which were known as chromeolly or cro-mo steels. Typical frame badges would have Tange cro-mo or Reynolds 500, or the heat treated Reynolds 501.
Going up from there you get manganese molybdenum steels... Which are badged under names like Reynolds 531, 531ST, 531C, 531MTB, and Reynolds 653. There was also a Reynolds 753 but if you see a 753, don't bother as they have a sell by date where after a year or two the livelyness of the frame will go dead as the metal ages. Also if you see Reynolds 453, it is ordinary bog standard mild steel,,and they are actually rare as othet makes of frame tubes were cheaper then Reynolds, so why pay extra for bog standard tubes? Only once have I ever seen a bike displaying the 453 badge). 653 is rebadged 531C. C stands for competition which has very thin frame tubes built for racing ad time trialing frames, and has a weight limit of a max of 16 stone for the riders... ST stands for Super Tourist which has stronger frame tubes used for touring bikes, and the strongest was the 531 MTB for mountain bike use.
More modern trends are to eliminate lugs and weld directly... Which is an issue as the 531 ranges (And 653 which is 531C) need lugs as they are either silver soldered or brazed... More commonly brazed for strength. So a new alloy of steel was formed which can be welded directly so lugs were no longer needed, and it was designed to be a weldable version of 531. Unfortunately those who have tried them thought 531 to be superiour. These are badged up as Reynolds 631. Actually I have never tried one as yet, which is hard to believe! They also habe Reynolds 831 (Or was it 853?) which is 631 but with an internal octagonal shape to the tubes but the outside is round. The idea is these tubes are stiffer so in theory give better performance, and these are said to be on par with titanium frames in the way they ride.
However, all is not what it seems. Todays bicycle frames are designed to be stiff. To reduce flex... Which is essential if one has an aluminium alloy... As aluminium needs to be stiff to prevent rhw material from breaking... Carbon fibre also needs to be stiff where the load bearing areas especially around rhe bottom bracket areas, hence they use the larger but (In my view based on repairing and servicing many of the things) probelematic design of bottom bracket assemblies.
Now ordinary mild or carbon steel will absorb your energy when you pedal it every time it flexes in the bottom bracket area of the frame, hence why most of these frames are not that lively, and they are also generally heavy. Ok, no two ordinary steels are alike. Some badged as ordinary steel mzde in Bangladesh on Emmelle bikes back in the late 1990's were out performing better quality aluminium bicycles which were typically six times their price! Yet a few ordinary steel bikes I have ridden... I could almost walk faster! Well. Not quite that bad... But you get the idea!
Now I mentioned the issues with bottom bracket flex in a negative way... (Where modern trends are to add a thick downtube to stiffen the frame as much as possible).... but 531 manganese molybdenum frames have (If the frame builders are experienced and know their stuff and habe taken advantage of this) a spring back effect to the flex. Now done right... Boy does this work well! One of my touring bikes is an Orbit, and Orbit was a small manufacturer which rather did their own thing, and their bikes either worked well or did not at all. Now when I bought this Orbit secondhand, initially I was dissapointed. Its owner said it was a Dawes Super Galaxy which I habe a Galaxy and done a great many miles on over the years. The super bit just means it had more expensive parts. Bug this bike had an Orbit Gold Medal frame, as the Dawes frame had been involved in an accident, so the salvageable parts were built onto the Orbit frame.
Tje issue I initially had was I thought the frame was bent as it wasn't riding straight. I happened to read up about Orbit bicycles on the internet, and I found a key bit of information which sorted out my problem. Now I was trained in how to straighten bike frames so I was gojng to attempt to do this... However, I found out that Orbit, doing their own thing, made the bike to take an undished rear wheel which is very unusual for a bicycle of this type, and as Dawes which in those days were traditional and built some cracking bikes... (These days I think they have lost their edge).. Well Dawes, like everyone else built their rear wheels dished. So I had a dished rear wheel on a bike designed for an undished rear wheels... Umm. So spokekey at the ready and 15 minutes later and voilla... I had a nice and true undished rear wheel...
And so I took the bike for a ride... You know I mentioned about 531 apringback? Well, Orbit, with this frame managed to pull it off so well I was absolutely loveing the ride!
So what does springback do? The idea is to use the frame materials springing qualities to aid pedalling efficiency rather then reduce it. The frames are made with a small degree of bottom bracket flex in mind. When the cyclist pushes down on the pedal, the bottom bracket flexes away from the force applied on it in a horizontally directed flex, and this flex is held until the cyclist reaches the end of the pedal stroke. When the springiness of the frame material goes to return the frame back to its origional position, tjis spring back effect provides that little bit extra force on the forward momentum of the pedaling power so it carries the cyclists pedalling through the dead area of the pedalling stroke so the next stroke of the opposite pedal is ready to do its work... And the effect, when the frame has been built right is so awesome, that I wouldn't trade this bicycle (Or my other 531 framed bikes) in a direct swop for any of the modern bikes out there. And yes 531 is still available, but as they no longer make 531 chain and seat stays, you are only going to get a 531 mainframed bicycle, so it is doubtful you will ever get the springback quality to great effect like the older bikes had it.
So try to get an older 531 framed bicycle... Even if it needs a complete rebuild. Do not be tempted to open out the rear forks to cram any more then a 7 speed freewheel or cassette in it as though it can certainly be done, you will have altered the qualities of the springback effect... Just fit a triple chainset instead to increase the gear range...

So to conclude, steel frames are so varied... I could ride one of my 531 framed bicycles three times as far and at a much faster speed on the same energy that I would take to ride a poorly made standard steel heavy bicycle. It is all about how the frames make use of rhe pedalling efficiency... And ordinary carbon steels do not have the same spring back speed, so they tend to habe the sappinh effect of the movement of rhe bottom bracket area without the correct timing of the return of rhe movement, so the further hamper the efficiency of the bike, as the return movement is hampering the initial pedalling stroke of the opposite pedal... (Hence why the modern trends are for smaller frames with stiffer downtubes to keep the frames as stiff as possible. Yes the initial pedalling is more efficient, but one does not have the extra springback to help the pedalling motion through the dead section on the pedalling stroke...


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Raleigh
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21 Jun 2019, 9:30 pm

I don't know.
I just get on the bike and ride it.
It rides well.


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Raleigh
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21 Jun 2019, 9:51 pm

Do you/have you raced competitively?


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Mountain Goat
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21 Jun 2019, 9:57 pm

In the past I competed in mountain bike racing events and even though I was young, because I was a strong cyclist I was put straight into the sports class which raced with the professionals, and I often finished with several professional riders behind me!

I never went into road racing as in my area the local club chose cyclists to put forward based on who they were rather then their actual cycling ability. I left after finding this out... (I did do a little time trialing and put quite a few to shame when I came in with an impressive result on my first attempt... Actually with the Raleigh... Another rider they were teasing who was not a popular guy... He used to do touring runs on his mountain bike.. The racing boys were making fun of him. He then turned up at a time trial with 26x1.75 (They may have been 26x1.95's or wider in those days) semi slick tyres on, took his panniers off and came second and he was very close to being first.. This is a club who had several riders in rhe guiniess book of records during those days). Someone saw him and was impressed and entered him and he became Wales' number one for that summer season... But his heart wasn't into it...

Mountainbike racing was in its infancy here in the UK and only the professional riders had suspension... It was just starting to come in with front forks on the very top end bikes when I was racing... Surprizingly, rhe world champion at the time who was from the USA... Steve Baker I think his name was... When he came to ride in Wales he disn't do at all well, as he wasn't used to our heavy clay type of mud which took sheer muscles to plough through and technique.. He said he had never come across a circuit like it! He mentioned that his riding in the USA was all on fast fire trails (Not sure what they are!) It goes to show though how many unseen heroes there are in the cycling world...
Even in those days though I was getting the occasional bout of energy loss.. So looking back, I was not likely to make it to the top... I always finished in the top 20 witn 17'th and a single DNF on one event... 14th being one of my best results... And when I finished 14th many professional riders were way behind me.... And I was never classed as a professional with my heavy bike...


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Last edited by Mountain Goat on 21 Jun 2019, 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Raleigh
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21 Jun 2019, 9:59 pm

I'm thinking of buying a dedicated mountain bike.
What would you recommend?
I borrowed my friend's, which is a Giant, it seemed ok.


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Raleigh
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21 Jun 2019, 10:01 pm

I'm a bit envious of your legs then.


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Mountain Goat
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21 Jun 2019, 10:30 pm

Giant were the largest mountainbike company and rhe second largest bicycle company in the world. They habe always made nice bikes.They made bikes for many other manufacturers... Years ago when I was racing companies like Alpine stars, Muddy Fox ans many orhers were manufactured by Giant.

I have lost touch with modern bicycles in rhe mountain bike field as I had quite a lot of issues with energy loss, and I left the shop I worked in as I used to ride with a co-worker.
Later on when I had thoughts to get back into it, which were in the days when some bikes started to have a single front disk brake... (I never rode discs even later.. I had magnesium V brakes on my last mountainbike).. Well.. I found it getting too professional where some were riding such expensive lightweight machines, and the old mountainbike racing rules of not being allowed to swop bikes and not being allowed outside assistence were done away with... You saw professional teams with several bikes along the route where every down hill they would swop to the beefed up downhill bikes and ride lightweight cross country bikes uphills... Things were becomeing a rich mans sport...
I am not sure if rhere has been a rethink in later years as when I raced, the largest wheel we were allowed was the 26"... Now there is the 27.5 and the 29" and those wide tyred ones which are in their elwment on soft sand... It is a totally diffeeent world out there today!


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21 Jun 2019, 10:50 pm

Local police radio busy with a drive-by shooting. 8O

I have an alibi, I swear. 8)


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