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Corny
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06 Apr 2017, 1:11 pm

I don't know if anyone else has words that they have pet peeves with. But I do. And those 2 words are sir and mam. I know that people say it for respect. But I just can't stand those words. They've always gotten on my nerves. I know that a lot of people and students at school say it. But not me. I hate it. It makes me feel weird and super proper. Just don't like it. I'm glad that I never say it, hear it, or forced to say it at home. Just school mostly is where I hear it.



Darmok
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06 Apr 2017, 1:49 pm

Corny wrote:
I don't know if anyone else has words that they have pet peeves with. But I do. And those 2 words are sir and mam. I know that people say it for respect. But I just can't stand those words. They've always gotten on my nerves. I know that a lot of people and students at school say it. But not me. I hate it. It makes me feel weird and super proper. Just don't like it. I'm glad that I never say it, hear it, or forced to say it at home. Just school mostly is where I hear it.

What about someone addressing you in that manner?

(When I was teaching, I quite often addressed students as sir or ma'am.)


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racheypie666
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06 Apr 2017, 2:00 pm

Up until recently, we were required to say them at work.
f**k that, I never did it.

Sir and Ma'am can be cute in a select few situations.
For the most part, they just feel off.



Corny
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06 Apr 2017, 2:07 pm

Darmok wrote:
Corny wrote:
I don't know if anyone else has words that they have pet peeves with. But I do. And those 2 words are sir and mam. I know that people say it for respect. But I just can't stand those words. They've always gotten on my nerves. I know that a lot of people and students at school say it. But not me. I hate it. It makes me feel weird and super proper. Just don't like it. I'm glad that I never say it, hear it, or forced to say it at home. Just school mostly is where I hear it.

What about someone addressing you in that manner?

(When I was teaching, I quite often addressed students as sir or ma'am.)

About that. Even though I'm the student and not the teacher. My agri teacher has said sir to me before. I didn't really like it much. But didn't say anything about it.



Corny
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06 Apr 2017, 2:07 pm

racheypie666 wrote:
Up until recently, we were required to say them at work.
f**k that, I never did it.

Sir and Ma'am can be cute in a select few situations.
For the most part, they just feel off.

Yes that is 100% the way I feel about sir and mam.



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06 Apr 2017, 2:28 pm

I hate those words too. I also hate seeing people in business suits. Maybe it's dishonesty and fraud that we don't like. It seems fake, and fake is disrespectful.



racheypie666
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06 Apr 2017, 2:39 pm

^ Yes. If I were to say 'sir' or 'madam' to a customer at work, I just know I would sound sarcastic.
It's so over the top, it can't be genuine. A very strange business practice indeed.



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06 Apr 2017, 4:16 pm

I don't use them much in English, but in general I only call people sir or madam when I sent an email to someone for the first time.

When they respond they usually start their mails with "Dear Caesar" or even "Hello Caesar" and then I'll start my future emails to them with "Dear name" and eventually I'll email them less and less in a business structured mail if I know them well enough.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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06 Apr 2017, 4:48 pm

Even though born in southwestern desert most of my growing up was done in the southeast and I now live in the midwest. In those last two regions the sir and ma'am thing was a local culture way to politely and respectfully address people you did not know, especially with youth to adults. In recent decades meanings I didn't see taken to be in them in earlier decades have now been assigned to the words.

These two articles make some good pro and con reading.
http://thecommonvision.org/features/yes-sir-yes-maam/
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/weeki ... ngier.html

This bit from the first article interests me

Quote:
" I think an agreed upon code of manners is an absolutely essential ingredient in fostering positive contact across generational lines, and building a safer and more trusting society besides. A social code that affords children and youth opportunities for respect and deference is beneficial to these young ages, as it gives them something solid and valuable to offer their elders at an age when they haven’t yet had time to gather the experience needed to hold their own in conversation or relationship with older people. This is why I think a loss of manners goes harder on the young than the old."


Especially in light of things like these; https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 201040.htm
Quote:
Americans believe civility is on the decline
Americans believe today's society is generally more ill-mannered than it was 30 years ago and that civility in politics is particularly lacking
Date:
April 22, 2016
Source:
NORC at the University of Chicago
Summary:
A recent survey finds that 74 percent of Americans think manners and behavior have deteriorated in the United States over the past several decades.


http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/go ... tters.html
Quote:
"Q. Are we a less civil society today than in years past?
A. Yes. A number of studies prove we are at an all-time low when it comes to being civil, to caring about what others think of our actions. Studies have compared students in the 1960s and ’70s and students today and found that students today care much less for society’s approval of their behavior than they did a few generations ago. They are detached, self-interested. And that’s not good news for society. In fact, civility has become a real issue in America. "

Q. So we really can’t have reasonable debates about issues?
A. No we can’t. And yet bipartisan conflict is part of democracy. It’s healthy. It’s important. But you must leave a space for the other’s opinion. And you must argue civilly.

Q. What does that mean for America’s future?
A. If we cannot be civil, our quality of life deteriorates, society itself begins to fray and democracy is weakened. We get to the point where incivility escalates and crosses into violence. There are now some 1.8 million acts of violence in the workplace each year, the government reports—from one worker shoving another to actual fights and even killings. Many began because of a perceived slight, a small act of rudeness that spiraled out of control. We all have an incentive to foster civility because the higher the level of civility, the lower the level of violence in a society.


Quote:
Employee relationships can have an effect on company productivity. If employees do not like each other but have learned to work together, then that kind of relationship is beneficial to the company. But if employees and managers begin to show a lack of respect for each other in the workplace, the results can be counter-productive to the entire company.
Communication
Staff members that show a lack of respect for each other create breaks in company communication. Employees that do not respect each other will not find it necessary to exchange important information in an attempt to put each other behind on company updates. The problem is that this prevents information to getting to other employees and starts to affect company-wide communication.
Personnel Use
People who do not respect each other do not give each other credit for the skills they possess. For example, the manager of an auto mechanic's shop who does not respect his top mechanic may decide to give jobs to other mechanics instead. The result can be that the quality of work suffers and the reputation of the shop is damaged.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/effects- ... 10556.html


Such conversations are not unique to the mainland USA.
Nor did they suddenly appear last week.
http://sciencenordic.com/understanding- ... rude-teens
Quote:
The common denominator is a lack of manners. Whereas previous generations misbehaved as a rebellion against authorities, part of today’s youths are so caught up in their own self-centeredness that no authorities exist in their minds, explains Mørch.
When they don’t show consideration for other people, it is not because they want to humiliate or spite them; it is because other people simply are of no relevance in their world.
According to Joakim Garff, a lecturer at the Søren Kierkegaard Research Centre, we have reached a lower limit for lack of good manners over the past decade.
...
Danish and international social scientists agree that the narcissistic insensitivity of this ‘Generation Y’ can be traced back to the generation that were college students in 1968, whose authority clash had significantly changed the world when these youths were born after 1980.
“The ‘68ers regarded everything that was associated with rules and norms as oppressive,” says Garff.
“In the holy name of liberation, this generation wanted to free themselves from all norms because they viewed them as oppression of human nature and of their opportunity of expression.”
He argues that this rebellion was regarded by the youths as serving to promote man’s social dimension.
“These efforts reach way back into the European philosophy tradition,” he says. “But no-one is born with the ability to interact respectfully with others, and instead of more freedom and care, we ended up with a tyranny of formlessness, which could help explain the cynicism and insensitivity we sometimes encounter today.”

Garff believes that today’s youths are out of touch with some of the fundamental principles of life because teachers, parents and social workers are worried about infringing the child’s autonomy and integrity.
As a result, he argues, they have grown up without really learning the difference between right and wrong.
“This obviously creates a more impoverished community that’s not a good breeding ground for any desire to be considerate, responsible and to engage is something as outdated as good behaviour.”


Quote:
Puerto Rico Discussion Forum > Open Board > Open Board
Reload this Page The loss of RESPECT in society...
15th July 1999, 13:02
Brenda
I believe all respect has gone out of the window.
Let me know your thoughts and we can chat.

http://www.puertorico.com/forums/open-b ... ciety.html


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Skilpadde
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07 Apr 2017, 5:17 am

I have no problem with sir and mam at all. I have used them when I speak English; in some situations it just comes natural to me. I wish we used them in Norwegian as well.

When I was younger I always used "De" and "Dem" (the equivalent of the German Sie) when addressing strange adults, and still do at times when addressing old people. It's just respectful and feels natural to me.

I haven't often been called mam, but the few times I did, it felt good, it made me feel more dignified.

I think it's a pity that these forms are on the way out.


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lostonearth35
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07 Apr 2017, 11:34 am

Strange, I thought people these days never call anyone sir, ma'am, or Mister or Miss anything anymore, because people, and by people I mean the younger generation, are now so rude and disrespectful it just makes me want to smack 'em. They also dress like utter slobs all the time no matter where they go or what the situation is. And people swear all the time now, too. Disgusting, no wonder the world is a mess. We need to FORCE the children to always have their hair neatly combed and wear neckties and always call the adults Mr. or Miss and Sir and Madam, and not speak unless they are spoken to, and stay off our lawns because because without adults around to do everything for them they'd be DEAD. :skull:

Sarcastic? Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. :roll:
Maybe the hair and clothing part...



Corny
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07 Apr 2017, 1:33 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
Strange, I thought people these days never call anyone sir, ma'am, or Mister or Miss anything anymore, because people, and by people I mean the younger generation, are now so rude and disrespectful it just makes me want to smack 'em. They also dress like utter slobs all the time no matter where they go or what the situation is. And people swear all the time now, too. Disgusting, no wonder the world is a mess. We need to FORCE the children to always have their hair neatly combed and wear neckties and always call the adults Mr. or Miss and Sir and Madam, and not speak unless they are spoken to, and stay off our lawns because because without adults around to do everything for them they'd be DEAD. :skull:

Sarcastic? Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. :roll:
Maybe the hair and clothing part...

What you mean? Most kids or a lot of them at my school say sir or mam. But I personally don't and don't like it either.



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08 Apr 2017, 11:52 am

In some contexts, the word ma'am makes me feel old. It's funny, because I don't look old.



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08 Apr 2017, 12:23 pm

It never ceases to amaze me that ASDers, of all people, are so unwilling to conform to social conventions----but, yet, are so, seemingly, DEMANDING that people accept them, in whatever way they (the ASDer) deem important. IOW, if one wants to be accepted in PUBLIC (in private, one can do whatever they want), then they must do acceptable things (ie, if they want respect, then they must SHOW respect; and, since "Ma'am" and "Sir" are acceptable social conventions, then that's what people should do [whether or not it makes one feel uncomfortable - they'll get used to it]), and not complain when they're not accepted (cuz they have no one to blame, but themselves).







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09 Apr 2017, 8:59 am

Used properly, these terms convey respect. I think it's better than being called "honey," or something similar, because these tend to put down people in some contexts.



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09 Apr 2017, 1:15 pm

Good manners cost nothing.


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