If someone died aboad an immigrant ship in 1898 ........

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cosmiccat
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05 Apr 2010, 4:47 pm

what would have been done with the body?

In 1898 my grandmother and her three children left Naples, Italy aboard the S.S. Victoria (also named Manitou) for New York. During the crossing her 5 month old daughter died aboard ship. I am assuming the body would have been tossed overboard into the sea. Can anyone shed some light on this? I have been searching on-line all day for the answer to this question and have found nothing on the subject except for the case with Irish immigrants during the Potato Famine who died in great numbers and were buried at sea. I'm certain my grandmother would have been traveling in steerage if that makes any difference. If you don't have an answer perhaps you could steer me to a website or book on the subject of immigration deaths at sea aboard U.S. and British ships during that period.

Thanks



Rose_in_Winter
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05 Apr 2010, 6:00 pm

She would probably have been wrapped in a shroud and given a burial at sea. If there were any clergy in steerage, they might have performed a service. Clergy not in steerage, if notified of the baby's death, might also have performed a service. However, in those times, there was no way to transport a dead body in a safe, sanitary way. Those who died were indeed given to the sea.



Ebonwinter
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05 Apr 2010, 6:05 pm

If you want I can study into it for you. I agree most likely a burial at sea or just carelessly shoved off the boat. I think the chance of the body not being found would be very slim due to all the people aboard.



cosmiccat
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05 Apr 2010, 6:17 pm

Rose_in_Winter wrote:
She would probably have been wrapped in a shroud and given a burial at sea. If there were any clergy in steerage, they might have performed a service. Clergy not in steerage, if notified of the baby's death, might also have performed a service. However, in those times, there was no way to transport a dead body in a safe, sanitary way. Those who died were indeed given to the sea.


Thanks Rose. I am working on a story about the women in my family and I would like it to be as accurate as possible. I am thinking about having the story narrated by the dead baby. I appreciate your input.



cosmiccat
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05 Apr 2010, 6:29 pm

Ebonwinter wrote:
If you want I can study into it for you. I agree most likely a burial at sea or just carelessly shoved off the boat. I think the chance of the body not being found would be very slim due to all the people aboard.


That is so extremely kind of you Ebonwinter. I would love to have you study it for me. The baby was named Erminia and my grandmother was Maria.

I'm not sure of the exact date, but it was 1898:

There was a few mistakes on the manifest. They have the baby listed as Erminico which would be masculine. They also have the wrong spelling for family's birthplace. It was Torricella Peligna.



Last edited by cosmiccat on 08 Apr 2010, 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Ebonwinter
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05 Apr 2010, 6:31 pm

I rarely delve into personal things involving a persons death unless it is important in a haunting. I'll try to help you at least.

Thats why I love stuff like haunted houses and such it is a fun way to get interested into the places history by inserting mystery.

I swear I didn't intend the corny rhyme.



Last edited by Ebonwinter on 05 Apr 2010, 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

cosmiccat
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05 Apr 2010, 6:50 pm

Ebonwinter wrote:
I rarely delve into personal things involving a persons death unless it is important in a haunting. I'll try to help you at least.


Well, the death of this baby is very haunting to me, though not in the usual sense. It haunts me also to think of what my grandmother and the two older children must have gone through on that crossing, especially upon losing Erminia.

In fact, I wrote a poem about it today.

Lament
I had to give Erminia to the Sea
I wanted to keep her little body
next to me and carry her into America
so Papa could see what a beauty she was.
But the captain said “No”
he could not allow that
so I wrapped her in my shawl
and told Vincenzo and Antonia
“Do not cry. We will see her again
when it is our turn to die.
I blessed her and kissed her
again and again.
I could not let her go.
Finally, they pulled her from me
because I could not bring myself
to throw her over the side.



Ebonwinter
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05 Apr 2010, 6:51 pm

cosmiccat wrote:
Ebonwinter wrote:
I rarely delve into personal things involving a persons death unless it is important in a haunting. I'll try to help you at least.


Well, the death of this baby is very haunting to me, though not in the usual sense. It haunts me also to think of what my grandmother and the two older children must have gone through on that crossing, especially upon losing Erminia.

In fact, I wrote a poem about it today.

Lament
I had to give Erminia to the Sea
I wanted to keep her little body
next to me and carry her into America
so Papa could see what a beauty she was.
But the captain said “No”
he could not allow that
so I wrapped her in my shawl
and told Vincenzo and Antonia
“Do not cry. We will see her again
when it is our turn to die.
I blessed her and kissed her
again and again.
I could not let her go.
Finally, they pulled her from me
because I could not bring myself
to throw her over the side.


You have a great way with words I've never been a poet myself but I like this.



ruveyn
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05 Apr 2010, 8:28 pm

cosmiccat wrote:
what would have been done with the body?

In 1898 my grandmother and her three children left Naples, Italy aboard the S.S. Victoria (also named Manitou) for New York. During the crossing her 5 month old daughter died aboard ship. I am assuming the body would have been tossed overboard into the sea. Can anyone shed some light on this? I have been searching on-line all day for the answer to this question and have found nothing on the subject except for the case with Irish immigrants during the Potato Famine who died in great numbers and were buried at sea. I'm certain my grandmother would have been traveling in steerage if that makes any difference. If you don't have an answer perhaps you could steer me to a website or book on the subject of immigration deaths at sea aboard U.S. and British ships during that period.

Thanks


Most likely, burial at sea unless the ship had a refrigerator and the body could be kept from stinking in a cold locker.

ruveyn



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06 Apr 2010, 5:00 am

In one of the "Pat of the Silver Bush" novels by L. M. Montgomery, there's a mention made by Judith (is it how she's named in the original version? Because I read Montgomery's books only in my native language) on how one man dealt with the death of his brother who died at sea by marinating him as she called it. He persisted in his brother being supplied home so the body was put into a lead coffin filled with rum and arrived home "as fresh as a rose bud".



cosmiccat
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06 Apr 2010, 11:32 am

@ Ruveyn - I agree that a burial at sea is the most likely, especially since this was 1898 and refrigeration was through the use of ice. I doubt they would have refrigerated the body. I suppose I will now be driven to research early morgue procedures and equipment. Oh, the joys of being on the spectrum. :lol:

@ Irulan - Very interesting story about the lead box and soaking the corpse in rum. I think I can safely rule that method out in the case of little Erminia.



Ambivalence
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06 Apr 2010, 2:21 pm

Nelson was kept in a barrel of booze after he died, so that novel is definitely grounded in the possible.


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cosmiccat
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06 Apr 2010, 3:01 pm

Ambivalence wrote:
Nelson was kept in a barrel of booze after he died, so that novel is definitely grounded in the possible.


Who is Nelson?



pakled
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07 Apr 2010, 12:21 am

Horatio Nelson? That was clear back in 1805 (I do believe, right after Trafalgar)
It depends on what class of ticket they had as to how well they were treated; Third Class was treated like Third World, etc.

There are any number of genealogical resources; I think you can access Ellis Island records (a good possibility) online. Now, that being said, the workers on the island were pretty lax about spelling, etc., and often renamed people as they felt like. There's other resources you can tap (the Mormons have the most complete, but hardly the most accurate records).

Note - we were at war with Spain in 1898, so they may not have come on an American ship. But the records are there (Census records are available up to 70 years from the current date) so that's another place to look.

Good luck, hope you find what you're looking for.


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RightGalaxy
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08 Apr 2010, 9:26 am

cosmiccat wrote:
Ebonwinter wrote:
I rarely delve into personal things involving a persons death unless it is important in a haunting. I'll try to help you at least.


Well, the death of this baby is very haunting to me, though not in the usual sense. It haunts me also to think of what my grandmother and the two older children must have gone through on that crossing, especially upon losing Erminia.

In fact, I wrote a poem about it today.

Lament
I had to give Erminia to the Sea
I wanted to keep her little body
next to me and carry her into America
so Papa could see what a beauty she was.
But the captain said “No”
he could not allow that
so I wrapped her in my shawl
and told Vincenzo and Antonia
“Do not cry. We will see her again
when it is our turn to die.
I blessed her and kissed her
again and again.
I could not let her go.
Finally, they pulled her from me
because I could not bring myself
to throw her over the side.



Your poem made me cry. See if you could find something on it through Ellis Island somehow. They have a website. My heart goes out to you even though this is so long ago. Erminia was your auntie. I'm sure she was given a proper burial at sea. Incidentally, don't give so much information on this website or any other website. It's not safe to do.



cosmiccat
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08 Apr 2010, 10:32 am

Thank you all for your comments, advice and well wishes, most recently those of Pakled and RightGalaxy. RightGalaxy, thanks for your advice about putting too much info on the net. I will go back and remove some of it.

I have made some progress. I have found the marriage license of my grandparents from civil records of Torricella and also birth years for the three children. I also found a great picture of the Victoria in the form of an old postcard.

Image