Cultural appropriation gone too far

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sorrowfairiewhisper
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29 Jun 2020, 10:07 am

Is it just me or are they making a big deal out of nothing? Like suddenly after all these years, it’s offensive for white people to voice black characters on tv but its probably ok for blacks to voice white people. If a white person braids there hair it’s offensive? It’s madness



Fnord
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29 Jun 2020, 10:21 am

sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
Is it just me or are they making a big deal out of nothing?
It's just you.
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
Like suddenly after all these years, it’s offensive for white people to voice black characters on tv but its probably ok for blacks to voice white people.
What is really offensive is that the majority of voice-over jobs are filled by white people, whether or not the character is also white.  Non-whites are hired to voice specific non-white characters, while whites are hired to voice all characters, especially if the white people can make their voices sound "ethnic".
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
If a white person braids there hair it’s offensive?
No, if a white person braids their hair into "cornrows" (or wears an "afro"), that's cultural appropriation of an African custom. Simple braids are common to many cultures, so there is no cultural appropriation of braids.
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
It’s madness
No, it makes sense once you analyze it correctly.


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sorrowfairiewhisper
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29 Jun 2020, 3:34 pm

So blacks shouldn’t dress up in European old fashioned or Victorian clothes as it’s racist or play Santa ect. All kids shouldn’t dress up as cow boys and Indians or learn about multi culture . Mixed messages from a mixed up world.



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29 Jun 2020, 3:58 pm

sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
So blacks shouldn’t dress up in European old fashioned or Victorian clothes as it’s racist...
Says who?  In case you are ignorant of the facts, people of all races dressed in Elizabethan, Victorian, and Edwardian fashions during each of those eras, and some elements of those fashions were even derived from fashions of other culture -- Chinese silks, for example, were highly prized the world over, and the qipao (a.k.a., changshan or cheongsam) may have originated in Asia, but its style was heavily influenced by American and European fashions.
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
... or play Santa...
Since "Santa" is not a real person, and the image of the fat old man in the beard and red suit is a commercial image (now in the public domain), there is no longer any legal requirement for "Santa" to be white.
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
All kids shouldn’t dress up as cow boys and Indians...
"Cowboys" came in all races -- even Native Americans were "cowboys".  As far as dressing like a Native American or First Nations member is concerned, it depends on the purpose: taking part in their sacred ceremonies because you were invited to do so is an act of respect, dressing up as an "Injun" for a costume party is not.
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
... or learn about multi culture.
If you're going to learn about a culture that is not your own, learn it right.  Don't just buy some fake buckskins off a rack, stick a feather in your hair, paint a few stripes on your face and call yourself an "Injun".  There are certain rituals to go through when making and beading a genuine buckskin outfit that most whites would not care about even if they knew what those rituals entailed.
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
Mixed messages from a mixed up world.
Again, if you know the real history behind the images, it isn't as mixed-up as you might currently believe.


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ASPartOfMe
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29 Jun 2020, 7:36 pm

Cultural items originate with groups but unless they pay for it they don't own them. It all depends on context obviously if a cultural item is used to mock it is no good. But generally

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sorrowfairiewhisper
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30 Jun 2020, 10:47 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Cultural items originate with groups but unless they pay for it they don't own them. It all depends on context obviously if a cultural item is used to mock it is no good. But generally
Oscar Wilde wrote:
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery



Well said! most of the time, people indulge in different cultures, to learn about there customs, eat the food, dress like them as part of learning. People forget that slavery went both ways, racism goes both ways. To accuse white people of racism and cultural appropriation when blacks have equally, done voice overs for white characters or whiten up ect. It just seems silly how suddenly they're all blowing it out of proportion.

People don't go on about the white people being killed in south Africa ect.Or the white Irish slaves, White women being raped and sold for slavery.

The point i was trying to make is that, the Victorians and other customs, that are European are dominantly white.
So if it's wrong for a white person to dress as an African, wear tribal clothes for example, then it's wrong for them to wear clothes that are associated with white people then.



sorrowfairiewhisper
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30 Jun 2020, 11:23 am

It's offensive for whites to braid there hair? ok it's offensive for blacks to have, blue or green eyed colour contacts or bleach there hair blond.



Fnord
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30 Jun 2020, 11:33 am

sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
It's offensive for whites to braid there hair?
Since when?  I think you're just making this crap up.


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funeralxempire
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30 Jun 2020, 11:57 am

sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
Is it just me or are they making a big deal out of nothing? Like suddenly after all these years, it’s offensive for white people to voice black characters on tv but its probably ok for blacks to voice white people. If a white person braids there hair it’s offensive? It’s madness


If you had a common accent but voice acting roles for characters with that accent were typically filled by people not part of that community poorly imitating that accent you might be a little annoyed by it.


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sorrowfairiewhisper
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30 Jun 2020, 5:28 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
Is it just me or are they making a big deal out of nothing? Like suddenly after all these years, it’s offensive for white people to voice black characters on tv but its probably ok for blacks to voice white people. If a white person braids there hair it’s offensive? It’s madness


If you had a common accent but voice acting roles for characters with that accent were typically filled by people not part of that community poorly imitating that accent you might be a little annoyed by it.



Maybe but my point is, why now? it hasn't bothered people for many years. People are suddenly only protesting because of Floyd death.

People of different origins have done voices with different accents, blackened up or whitened up for centuries.



funeralxempire
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30 Jun 2020, 5:32 pm

sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
Is it just me or are they making a big deal out of nothing? Like suddenly after all these years, it’s offensive for white people to voice black characters on tv but its probably ok for blacks to voice white people. If a white person braids there hair it’s offensive? It’s madness


If you had a common accent but voice acting roles for characters with that accent were typically filled by people not part of that community poorly imitating that accent you might be a little annoyed by it.



Maybe but my point is, why now? it hasn't bothered people for many years. People are suddenly only protesting because of Floyd death.

People of different origins have done voices with different accents, blackened up or whitened up for centuries.


Your point is misinformed. People have often complained over this, it's just those complaints were ignored. The fact that you weren't aware of people being bothered isn't the same as no one being bothered. Further, this 'well no one found this offensive before' nonsense is used to silence the complaints so that next time they start getting attention you can use that same line all over again .


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sorrowfairiewhisper
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30 Jun 2020, 5:46 pm

Lets be clear. How George Floyd was killed, was barberic. The person that killed him, got sentenced.
George Floyd, however put peoples lives at risk and was an armed Robber. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Secondly.
People of all cultures would order things such as chinese kimonos or dresses for fashion.
People have spent many years, using aesthetics for shows or accents for cartoons.

It never used to be a problem.

Only in recent weeks it is and with all this on the news and people guilt tripping white people. It's causing more division and hatred.



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30 Jun 2020, 6:02 pm

Actually, cultural appropriation has been a "thing" since the 1960s (as far back as I can remember), and maybe longer.  Maybe not as extensively as it is now, but it certainly existed back then.

I can see both sides of the issue:

1) The anger and frustration of people who see their sacred and traditional ways being used by "outsiders" as fashion statements and advertising gimmicks.

2) The confusion and contempt of people being told that adopting the ways of another culture -- if only temporarily -- is somehow disrespectful and wrong.

There is merit on both sides.  The last time I wore a barong (a tunic made from coconut fibers) to a Filipino event, one of the lolos (grandfathers) took me aside and 'suggested' that I might want to change clothes so as not to look 'bobo' (stupid).  A lola (grandmother) told him I looked 'pogi' (handsome) and to leave me a alone.  I just wanted to look nice and show them how much I appreciated being invited.  Most appreciated my efforts, some didn't.

On the other hand, when I'm in a foreign country and I see someone using the American flag as a shawl or head-covering, I feel some anger toward that person for showing disrespect to my flag and country (and me, by extension).

Oh well ... what can you do? :shrug:


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sorrowfairiewhisper
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30 Jun 2020, 6:58 pm

Fnord wrote:
Actually, cultural appropriation has been a "thing" since the 1960s (as far back as I can remember), and maybe longer.  Maybe not as extensively as it is now, but it certainly existed back then.

I can see both sides of the issue:

1) The anger and frustration of people who see their sacred and traditional ways being used by "outsiders" as fashion statements and advertising gimmicks.

2) The confusion and contempt of people being told that adopting the ways of another culture -- if only temporarily -- is somehow disrespectful and wrong.

There is merit on both sides.  The last time I wore a barong (a tunic made from coconut fibers) to a Filipino event, one of the lolos (grandfathers) took me aside and 'suggested' that I might want to change clothes so as not to look 'bobo' (stupid).  A lola (grandmother) told him I looked 'pogi' (handsome) and to leave me a alone.  I just wanted to look nice and show them how much I appreciated being invited.  Most appreciated my efforts, some didn't.

On the other hand, when I'm in a foreign country and I see someone using the American flag as a shawl or head-covering, I feel some anger toward that person for showing disrespect to my flag and country (and me, by extension).

Oh well ... what can you do? :shrug:



I guess in these situations you can't win. Not everything is done out of ignorance though. Isn't this sort of encouraging racism to continue? i'm all for educating but it's taken to a point now, where you can't say or do anything without unintentionally *offending*



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30 Jun 2020, 7:03 pm

sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
Lets be clear. How George Floyd was killed, was barberic. The person that killed him, got sentenced.
George Floyd, however put peoples lives at risk and was an armed Robber. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Secondly.
People of all cultures would order things such as chinese kimonos or dresses for fashion.
People have spent many years, using aesthetics for shows or accents for cartoons.

It never used to be a problem.

Only in recent weeks it is and with all this on the news and people guilt tripping white people. It's causing more division and hatred.


Umm, since when was Derick Chauvin or any other officer involved with the murder of George Floyd sentenced?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/minneapol ... -1.5602929

Also, the fact that he had once committed a violent crime doesn't make it any more appropriate for police to murder him when he appeared to be cooperative. You're right, two wrongs don't make a right so please stop pretending they do.

The fact that that action caused many people to start evaluating other racist norms we allow isn't "a second wrong" as you're attempting to portray it. It's not "guilt-tripping" to point out things that are legitimate wrongs for which guilt is an appropriate response. If you're unhappy that racism is less acceptable improve your outlooks instead of just whining that they're less acceptable and more people are more likely to be intolerant of them.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


sorrowfairiewhisper
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30 Jun 2020, 7:53 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
sorrowfairiewhisper wrote:
Lets be clear. How George Floyd was killed, was barberic. The person that killed him, got sentenced.
George Floyd, however put peoples lives at risk and was an armed Robber. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Secondly.
People of all cultures would order things such as Chinese kimonos or dresses for fashion.
People have spent many years, using aesthetics for shows or accents for cartoons.

It never used to be a problem.

Only in recent weeks it is and with all this on the news and people guilt tripping white people. It's causing more division and hatred.


Umm, since when was Derick Chauvin or any other officer involved with the murder of George Floyd sentenced?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/minneapol ... -1.5602929

Also, the fact that he had once committed a violent crime doesn't make it any more appropriate for police to murder him when he appeared to be cooperative. You're right, two wrongs don't make a right so please stop pretending they do.

The fact that that action caused many people to start evaluating other racist norms we allow isn't "a second wrong" as you're attempting to portray it. It's not "guilt-tripping" to point out things that are legitimate wrongs for which guilt is an appropriate response. If you're unhappy that racism is less acceptable improve your outlooks instead of just whining that they're less acceptable and more people are more likely to be intolerant of them.


It is guilt tripping if you keep making out that, everything white people do is a problem, even if they try to support other cultures. Your attitude is what get people backs up, you're part of the problem not the solution. People like you, keep the division