Are efforts against covid useless ?

Page 2 of 3 [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Aspinator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 771
Location: AspinatorLand

24 Nov 2021, 12:32 pm

I'm sure everyone is getting tired of the Covid restrictions. A good question would be - how might things turn out if there were no restrictions? People were tired of the fighting in WWII; I am glad that there was not a group that said "fxxk it; I am tired of all the fighting and killing so if we stop fighting, the problem will go away. I feel we as a world are faced with the same question - we can't give up now.



CinderashAutomaton
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2021
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 190
Location: Canada

24 Nov 2021, 1:03 pm

Keep in mind that there is a lot of ebb and flow about infection rates related to all kinds of things like relaxing regulations, alarming news broadcasts, popular media content authored by people who have no idea what they're talking about, and new cases of covid entering social networks of people who don't give a s**t about counter-covid measures.

Vaccines and spread prevention measures are great, but they're only as effective as the population that takes them up.

Be careful about who you take advice and information from. Charisma and fame are not valid replacement for intelligence. Think about all the crazy science and tech we've got like smartphones. Those are all products of science, just like the vaccine and the spread prevention rules created by other people of science. Science and the things it produces are things that really really smart people came up with. Not just one or two, but hundred of thousands of them all working together over decades and even centuries.

If there's anything you can trust, it's that. There is no organization of humankind more collectively intelligent than the efforts of science. And it is most certainly a lot more reliable than random, lazy individuals talking out of their ass because they're too lazy to do the right thing or make their money by having people pay attention to them.


_________________
Thank you deeply for sharing your experiences. I don't feel so alone anymore.


chris1989
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Aug 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 594
Location: Kent, UK

25 Nov 2021, 6:48 pm

I've have wondered sometimes is it really in the interest of the virus to kill people ? I feel quite concerned because there have been reports of a new variant in Africa which they say has 35 cell mutations, but I mean does that really mean that makes it more deadly, more transmissible and able to evade vaccines ?



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,798
Location: UK

25 Nov 2021, 7:16 pm

I don't know how much longer I can put up with this pandemic. It's just constantly variation after variation, when does it end? What's the point of having vaccines if these new variants keep taking over and making the vaccines useless? The f*****g virus seems to be one step ahead of humans. The Chinese government have really succeeded in their plan to wipe out all of humanity. Way to f**k everybody's lives up, China.


_________________
Female
Aged 32
On antidepressants
Diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety and mild ASD


PhosphorusDecree
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 May 2016
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,632
Location: Yorkshire, UK

26 Nov 2021, 8:36 am

chris1989 wrote:
PhosphorusDecree wrote:
chris1989 wrote:
I seem to think that there are people who feel its better to be infected than to be vaccinated because you could have much long term immunity than the vaccine. I used to always think vaccines were the best weapons to fight a pandemic and that its better and safer to be vaccinated than being infected and falling really ill. I have often thought that now we have vaccines and that it was supposed to weaken the severity of the virus and that people are still getting infected. Are they only catching a less severe virus from someone or are they still catching the virus that was already severe before it infected people ?


I think it's that the vaccines lower the risk of getting the virus AND they reduce how severe the symptoms are. They're not perfect at either, but they still massively reduce the risk of actually dying from it. A lot of the problem right now is that the virus keeps evolving into more infectious forms in order to survive. But it doesn't seem to be becoming more lethal. The other problem is that so many people have abandoned any attempt at being cautious, giving the virus easy access to those who are most vulnerable to it.


I remember a report in the UK saying about a slight mutation in the Delta variant which was more transmissible but unlikely to cause symptoms. I thought that that was quite unusual.


Early on, there was speculation that the virus might evolve to be milder, and so survive by being too harmless for us to bother fighting. Most of the strains seem to be going for more infectious instead, but it's nice to know at least oneversion is trying that?


_________________
"Your silence speaks volumes to your interest, so I'll keep talking about this a lot."


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 37
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 16,826
Location: I'm right here

26 Nov 2021, 8:38 am

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
chris1989 wrote:
PhosphorusDecree wrote:
chris1989 wrote:
I seem to think that there are people who feel its better to be infected than to be vaccinated because you could have much long term immunity than the vaccine. I used to always think vaccines were the best weapons to fight a pandemic and that its better and safer to be vaccinated than being infected and falling really ill. I have often thought that now we have vaccines and that it was supposed to weaken the severity of the virus and that people are still getting infected. Are they only catching a less severe virus from someone or are they still catching the virus that was already severe before it infected people ?


I think it's that the vaccines lower the risk of getting the virus AND they reduce how severe the symptoms are. They're not perfect at either, but they still massively reduce the risk of actually dying from it. A lot of the problem right now is that the virus keeps evolving into more infectious forms in order to survive. But it doesn't seem to be becoming more lethal. The other problem is that so many people have abandoned any attempt at being cautious, giving the virus easy access to those who are most vulnerable to it.


I remember a report in the UK saying about a slight mutation in the Delta variant which was more transmissible but unlikely to cause symptoms. I thought that that was quite unusual.


Early on, there was speculation that the virus might evolve to be milder, and so survive by being too harmless for us to bother fighting. Most of the strains seem to be going for more infectious instead, but it's nice to know at least oneversion is trying that?


More infectious but with less severe symptoms is the usual pattern pathogens follow as they evolve.


_________________
You can't buy happiness; steal it.
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


chris1989
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Aug 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 594
Location: Kent, UK

30 Dec 2021, 9:30 am

I seem to think normality will take years and years to come back, I seem to think it'll be like the Great Depression of the 30s which lasted ten years and countries like the US was not fully recovered until the end of World War 2 or the Last Recession which lasted 12 years or more.



Aspie1
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,373
Location: United States

31 Dec 2021, 9:27 am

The Covid measures were never about the virus: not in March 2020, not today. They were ALWAYS about extending government control; Covid is merely a pretext and a cover-up. I understand that this is an aspie site, where people take many messages literally. But the liberal veil of virtue-signaling is so thin, all but the most severe aspies should be able to see though it.

In fact, putting commie Democrats in power is exactly why George Soros and Anthony Fauci colluded with the Wuhan lab. They wanted to make a new flu virus, release it before the 2020 election, and say it's the new Bubonic Plague: Fauci gave the knowledge, Soros gave the cash, and liberal media gave the broadcasts. They all wanted to enable the Great Reset, undermine Donald Trump, and further beat down the unwashed masses. All while having their maskless, crowded parties with the commie Democrats they work for, where they exchange hugs with their fellow liberals and snicker at the masses falling for their agenda, as America gets looted and burned down.

It seems like Fauci, Soros, and the commies got more than they bargained for. The virus was supposed to burn itself out shortly after Joe Biden took office; it had served its purpose, and was no longer needed. Instead, it spun out of control, mutated into Delta and Omicron, and is still around today.

Wake up! Open your eyes! "Q"uestion authority! And have a happy New Year!


_________________
86 the 46
Don't tread on me!
No aid or comfort to the liberals. No way.
My rights don't end where your feeeelings begin!
Then they came for me. But by then, there was no one left to object.
If you're conservative when you're young, you have no heart! If you're liberal when you're mature, you have no brain!


goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 15,854
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

07 Jan 2022, 9:43 pm

When you hear someone coughing, just tell yourself:

"They don't have covid :roll: , they're simply a cannabis connoisseur. 8) "

And then you'll be able to go about life A-okay, especially knowing that all those stoners around you are pretty calm, docile, people vs. a threat of any kind.


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


HighLlama
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,910

08 Jan 2022, 3:47 am

Bring on the restrictions. When they announced a lockdown I was in heaven. Aside from all the people hoarding toilet paper.



Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,930

08 Jan 2022, 7:32 pm

Omicron looks like a pretty good vaccine. :wink: I'm a fan of seeing what people do over what they say, especially when it comes to politicians and talking heads.

That's the current effort. We'll see how that one works out.



chris1989
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Aug 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 594
Location: Kent, UK

25 Jan 2022, 1:01 pm

I seem to think that scientists and other medical experts including people in the World Health Organisation know everything about what the virus is going to do next even though I know they probably don't know as much as much as other people and can only rely on the best guesses and speculation. They've been reminding countries who are relaxing restrictions not to forget that the pandemic isn't over. I seem also think that even if one or a few countries have some unvaccinated people in their populations, are they still posing a danger to the rest of the world that is fully vaccinated ?



KimD
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 493

25 Jan 2022, 7:41 pm

chris1989 wrote:
I seem to think that scientists and other medical experts including people in the World Health Organisation know everything about what the virus is going to do next even though I know they probably don't know as much as much as other people and can only rely on the best guesses and speculation. They've been reminding countries who are relaxing restrictions not to forget that the pandemic isn't over. I seem also think that even if one or a few countries have some unvaccinated people in their populations, are they still posing a danger to the rest of the world that is fully vaccinated ?


Thinking that the W.H.O. knows exactly how this is going to play out but is keeping it a secret sounds like paranoia and is, frankly, impossible. I'm confused, though, when you talk about the same people relying on speculation; am I misunderstanding you? That sounds self-contradictory in a big way!

Health authorities know the pandemic isn't over because it simply isn't. The metrics of vast numbers of people still falling ill, and new cases still cropping up, all over the world, is the very definition of a pandemic (a la Wikipedia):

Quote:
A pandemic (from Greek πᾶν, pan, "all" and δῆμος, demos, "local people" the 'crowd') is an epidemic of an infectious disease that has spread across a large region, for instance multiple continents or worldwide, affecting a substantial number of individuals. A widespread endemic disease with a stable number of infected individuals is not a pandemic. Widespread endemic diseases with a stable number of infected individuals such as recurrences of seasonal influenza are generally excluded as they occur simultaneously in large regions of the globe rather than being spread worldwide.

Throughout human history, there have been a number of pandemics of diseases such as smallpox. The most fatal pandemic in recorded history was the Black Death (also known as The Plague), which killed an estimated 75–200 million people in the 14th century.[2][3][4][5] The term was not used yet but was for later pandemics including the 1918 influenza pandemic (Spanish flu).[6][7][8]

Recent pandemics include tuberculosis, Russian flu, Spanish flu, Asian flu, cholera, Hong Kong flu, HIV/AIDS and COVID-19. [9][10]


Regarding vaccinations: it's likely that the virus will continue to pose some threat (how severe or mild, I don't know) as long as a large majority of people remain vulnerable--as in non-immune--to it. The longer and farther any virus is allowed to spread unchecked, the more it will replicate, mutate, and probably continue to spread. In order to eradicate a virus, nearly everyone who can be vaccinated needs to be, to limit the spread and basically drive it to extinction. That happened with Smallpox, but it took a long time and a concentrated global effort throughout the 20th century. It's no longer likely that we'll be able to do that with covid-19+, but if we don't try, I think we'll be worse off for a lot longer.

At this point, everyone will have to keep working to minimize the spread, identify and treat cases promptly (before infected people can spread it to yet more people), and develop and distribute efficient treatments to reduce the harmful effects of whichever variant is going around at any given time. I view it like an enormous wildfire: you have to find out exactly where it is and which way it's spreading. Then you work to isolate it/contain it, stop it from spreading to other areas, extinguish it wherever you can as soon as you can, rescue survivors, treat their injuries, and so on. You can't just wish it away or hope it will put itself out, because the bigger it is and the more fuel there is in its path, the more damage it will do.

Personally, I'm extremely disappointed, frustrated, and mad as HELL at people who have stood in the way of nipping this damned thing in the bud. When I start to get bogged in pessimism, I take hope from, of all things, the process we've made on preventing and treating HIV/AIDS. A crucial difference, though, is the fact that covid is airborne and HIV is, well, very NOT airborne!



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,786
Location: Long Island, New York

25 Jan 2022, 8:26 pm

Aspinator wrote:
A good question would be - how might things turn out if there were no restrictions?

An extreme version of what has been going on with the Omicron surge.
Instead of strain on the health care system, economy, supply chain etc they would collapse from so many people people being too sick to do the jobs.

The recovery would be greatly inhibited by the needed talent being dead or physically disabled, or mentally disabled.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

It is Autism Acceptance Month.

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Aspie1
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,373
Location: United States

25 Jan 2022, 8:36 pm

chris1989 wrote:
I seem to think that scientists and other medical experts including people in the World Health Organisation...
This! ^^^

The fact that the WHO is even mentioned clinches my belief that Anthony Fauci and George Soros were in on the Covid scamdemic since day one, along with the WHO elites who got George Soros's money. Donald Trump did the right thing by withdrawing from WHO, an organization more corrupt than the Italian Mafia, the Russian Mafia, and the OPEC put together.

All "international" organizations, like the Paris Climate Liars, the UN, and the WHO need to be disbanded, and their leaders imprisoned. Each country should be allowed to handle its own matters without outside corruption sticking its ugly face in.


_________________
86 the 46
Don't tread on me!
No aid or comfort to the liberals. No way.
My rights don't end where your feeeelings begin!
Then they came for me. But by then, there was no one left to object.
If you're conservative when you're young, you have no heart! If you're liberal when you're mature, you have no brain!


chris1989
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Aug 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 594
Location: Kent, UK

26 Jan 2022, 2:03 pm

KimD wrote:
chris1989 wrote:
I seem to think that scientists and other medical experts including people in the World Health Organisation know everything about what the virus is going to do next even though I know they probably don't know as much as much as other people and can only rely on the best guesses and speculation. They've been reminding countries who are relaxing restrictions not to forget that the pandemic isn't over. I seem also think that even if one or a few countries have some unvaccinated people in their populations, are they still posing a danger to the rest of the world that is fully vaccinated ?


Thinking that the W.H.O. knows exactly how this is going to play out but is keeping it a secret sounds like paranoia and is, frankly, impossible. I'm confused, though, when you talk about the same people relying on speculation; am I misunderstanding you? That sounds self-contradictory in a big way!

Health authorities know the pandemic isn't over because it simply isn't. The metrics of vast numbers of people still falling ill, and new cases still cropping up, all over the world, is the very definition of a pandemic (a la Wikipedia):

Quote:
A pandemic (from Greek πᾶν, pan, "all" and δῆμος, demos, "local people" the 'crowd') is an epidemic of an infectious disease that has spread across a large region, for instance multiple continents or worldwide, affecting a substantial number of individuals. A widespread endemic disease with a stable number of infected individuals is not a pandemic. Widespread endemic diseases with a stable number of infected individuals such as recurrences of seasonal influenza are generally excluded as they occur simultaneously in large regions of the globe rather than being spread worldwide.

Throughout human history, there have been a number of pandemics of diseases such as smallpox. The most fatal pandemic in recorded history was the Black Death (also known as The Plague), which killed an estimated 75–200 million people in the 14th century.[2][3][4][5] The term was not used yet but was for later pandemics including the 1918 influenza pandemic (Spanish flu).[6][7][8]

Recent pandemics include tuberculosis, Russian flu, Spanish flu, Asian flu, cholera, Hong Kong flu, HIV/AIDS and COVID-19. [9][10]


Regarding vaccinations: it's likely that the virus will continue to pose some threat (how severe or mild, I don't know) as long as a large majority of people remain vulnerable--as in non-immune--to it. The longer and farther any virus is allowed to spread unchecked, the more it will replicate, mutate, and probably continue to spread. In order to eradicate a virus, nearly everyone who can be vaccinated needs to be, to limit the spread and basically drive it to extinction. That happened with Smallpox, but it took a long time and a concentrated global effort throughout the 20th century. It's no longer likely that we'll be able to do that with covid-19+, but if we don't try, I think we'll be worse off for a lot longer.

At this point, everyone will have to keep working to minimize the spread, identify and treat cases promptly (before infected people can spread it to yet more people), and develop and distribute efficient treatments to reduce the harmful effects of whichever variant is going around at any given time. I view it like an enormous wildfire: you have to find out exactly where it is and which way it's spreading. Then you work to isolate it/contain it, stop it from spreading to other areas, extinguish it wherever you can as soon as you can, rescue survivors, treat their injuries, and so on. You can't just wish it away or hope it will put itself out, because the bigger it is and the more fuel there is in its path, the more damage it will do.

Personally, I'm extremely disappointed, frustrated, and mad as HELL at people who have stood in the way of nipping this damned thing in the bud. When I start to get bogged in pessimism, I take hope from, of all things, the process we've made on preventing and treating HIV/AIDS. A crucial difference, though, is the fact that covid is airborne and HIV is, well, very NOT airborne!


As I said in another thread, I seem to think the infection rate for this virus is quite slow considering that now there have been 350 million people infected out of over 7 billion people and now there are nearly 5 billion people globally vaccinated (with one dose). I seem to think surely not every single human being on the planet can be infected or be vaccinated. In my mind its like as if the virus is outside your front door prowling around like a starving tiger waiting for you to come out and then pounce.