"if guns are outlawed only violent criminals will have guns.

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nick007
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08 Jan 2023, 1:58 pm

Radish wrote:
MissMary227 wrote:
Just think of all those proud Americans being armed. I like the idea of an armed citizenry myself. :viking:

/my point has been made here


I prefer a peaceful non-violent life; not being part of a malignant militia.
Same here. I saw the news two years ago when a violent militia storned the White House to keep an orange dictator wanna be in power. Land of the free my a$$ :x :evil:


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Jakki
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08 Jan 2023, 2:42 pm

this sounds like a thread ripe for inflammation of arguement on gun rights topic ...but . There is A fact that has been growing and growing while everyone sees what the media presents . And this have gotten so outta hand that it is hard not to see people as the Great P.T. Barum did and as he once was quoted as saying a Sucker is borne every minute .
Now that i have potentially pizzed off some folks . PLEASE CONSIDER:
We now have had a huge surveillence systems through out the known world that can literally Monitor "All " Forms of electronic communication and does So .And the system i currently reference is outdated and old . Imagine the current level of technology. Originally thought for tech warfare or inlelligence. But has been used to spy on Americans since at least the 1980s And G.B. and Australia and Germany and N.Z. Called "Eschelon" Something about the
5 eyes network. And obviously was enevitably conceptually to use to stop terrorism . The new systems decript possible code words and analyze any parameters that could imply anything covert or bad for each of those governments .
Recent the shootings in Texas at the school that young bullied adult from that same school even after he graduated
Posted his intentions on """"Facebook """" So what was this system doing when these potential threats occur?????.
And i am referring to a outdated antique system . We now have had satellites that read license plates from outter space that
Cover most of our outter atmosphere . The Question is not about guns but the people whom are controlling this equipment . But yes guns are involved . But the people whom control the space toys . Have much much more lethal stuff, than alot of people can imagine. That they can literally operate from out of this world . And None of this is
Science fiction anymore , for many many years now. But it is Science fact. 8O
If these info snooping government machine ( even for a moment)were to be put to good use the governmental police authorities could interacted and have easily intercepted the boy on his way to that school were the masscre happened. He frickened literally posted it on media, And have read of other in the past posting there intentions before hostile actions took place in real time. 8O Am barely talking about the tip of the technological iceberg here.


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Where_am_I
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08 Jan 2023, 3:36 pm

Radish wrote:
MissMary227 wrote:
You have yet to answer my question though about how you would defend yourself and your family if someone broke into your home.


Without recourse to lethal force preferably. Assuming he managed to get past my 100 pound Akita dog, which would likely rip his face and testicles off, he'd have me to face with a very large knife. I am also trained in self defence and quite a big chap.

As yet, nobody has tried to break into our home. If they did, I'd rather it be on my terms as described rather than both of us carrying a gun. Upping the ante with guns doesn't improve the outlook for me or my family.

Either nobody has guns (UK) or everybody has guns (USA). I prefer the former.

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Radish
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08 Jan 2023, 4:37 pm

Where_am_I wrote:
Image


:lol:

Don't tell anyone but my knife is a little potato peeler. :P


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Misslizard
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08 Jan 2023, 4:41 pm

/\I thought you were fixing us all a Charcuterie board. :cry:


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Radish
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08 Jan 2023, 4:43 pm

Misslizard wrote:
/\I thought you were fixing us all a Charcuterie board. :cry:


Oh all right then. Save me some blue cheese.

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Dengashinobi
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08 Jan 2023, 6:00 pm

The right to self protection is a right no different from any other right, like the right to free speech, the right to property, the right to procreate etc. The governments will always find arguments about why those rights should be taken away. For example: the right to procreate should be forbidden for people with genetic diseases, because this way we can eradicate them from the general population, would argue the Nazis. The right to property should be taken because it creates inequality and injustice, argued Lenin while killing everybody that had a different opinion, and so on. We are born with some inalienable rights that God gave us, or call it our natural condition in the universe if you like. The idea that we live in a magical place called "the state" were there is no need for self protection is simply not realistic. If the state has faild to eradicate threats towards you or your family then why should it take your right to protect yourself as you see fit?

In my opinion the right to self protection is a human right and no government has any justifications to take such rights away.



goldfish21
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08 Jan 2023, 6:06 pm

What the heck kinda society does someone live in if protecting yourself = guns required. Wtf kind of awful country or town must one live in to NEED guns to protect yourself ?? Unless we're talking the Alaskan wilderness and it's for bears.

Another possible explanation is that people are just anxious and fearful and there isn't really a threat to their lives that requires loaded guns on hand. I suspect that's more often the case than not. Fear marketing to sell guns.

All of this gun culture stuff South of the border is accumulating to ever bigger problems.. like the fact that gun violence is now the number one killer of children in the USA. It's no longer car accidents - it's getting shot. You'd think that might make some people re-think their thoughts on guns, guns, guns e'erywhere.. and that maybe, just maybe, other countries with some form of gun control Might just be onto something when it comes to public safety..


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Sonic200
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08 Jan 2023, 7:12 pm

How about instead having pepper spray, a taser, a baseball bat, a sword, or a BB gun to protect yourself?



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08 Jan 2023, 7:26 pm

Sonic200 wrote:
How about instead having pepper spray, a taser, a baseball bat, a sword, or a BB gun to protect yourself?

How about physical fitness and some martial arts training?

Way better more disciplined defence than the types of things that can get out of hand by escalation or accidents when guns are involved.


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magz
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09 Jan 2023, 3:00 am

My dad gave me paralysing gas when I often came back late as a teenager.
He warned me that it was serious stuff, on his weapon license.
I never used it. Never needed to. The toughgtest situation I was in happened years later, when I didn't have any kind of weapon but I pushed a stroller with a baby - and I was able to... talk my way out. Really. Because the attacker did not expect it and he got confused. Turns out these guys are unimaginable cowards.


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Dengashinobi
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09 Jan 2023, 3:08 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Sonic200 wrote:
How about instead having pepper spray, a taser, a baseball bat, a sword, or a BB gun to protect yourself?

How about physical fitness and some martial arts training?

Way better more disciplined defence than the types of things that can get out of hand by escalation or accidents when guns are involved.


That is your idea of how you could protect yourself more efficiently. It is "your" idea about "yourself" and you are entitled to it. You can't impose it on other people though.



Texasmoneyman300
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09 Jan 2023, 4:40 am

Radish wrote:
@MissMary227

If I died in such a situation, then so be it; however saying that, such a situation here is extremely unlikely. It is preferable to living in a society where everyone (good people and bad) owns guns and lives in fear. Overall, the UK is a far less violent place than the US and that's what is important to me.

Do you think it is a good thing that people in the US can buy military grade weapons and automatic weapons that are intended for the battlefield? Are you expecting the zombie apocalypse or having to defend your home against an army of intruders?

It is very difficult to get a military-grade guns legally in America.Only the rich top 1 percent of Americans have legal military grade assault rifles.You have to be on a 1 to 2 year waiting list through the National Firearms Act to buy military grade guns in America.The AR-15 was never used by any military in world history.The AR-15 is a semi-automatic and is not military-grade.Its certainly not an assault rifle.It is the semi-automatic civilian version of assault rifle.No more military-grade assault rifles are allowed to be produced for the civlian market.Legally obtained miltary-grade guns are never used in crime in the United States.A military grade AK-47 prolly cost at least 20,000 to 100,000 dollars in America per gun.



Last edited by Texasmoneyman300 on 09 Jan 2023, 6:55 am, edited 3 times in total.

Texasmoneyman300
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09 Jan 2023, 4:51 am

Sonic200 wrote:
How about instead having pepper spray, a taser, a baseball bat, a sword, or a BB gun to protect yourself?

Nah I would rather have a AR-15 for self defense.



Last edited by Texasmoneyman300 on 09 Jan 2023, 6:15 am, edited 6 times in total.

magz
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09 Jan 2023, 4:52 am

I gave some thought to the original quote, testing it against my own country.
We have very restrictive gun policy, I think it could be loosened (but not to the USA level! Czechia or Finland would be optimal).

Anyway, in 1990s, it was largely true here. Mostly organized crime had guns and the gangs... shot at each other. Bystanders were mostly safe.
After organized crime got largely reduced here, the ones with weapons are mostly hunters now.

But limiting organized crime requires hard work and adressing various social problems on many levels. Simple slogans like "more guns" and "harsher punishments" don't work, they only feed the cycle of violence.


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09 Jan 2023, 8:15 am

Radish wrote:
I prefer a peaceful non-violent life... .


Yeah.

Sadly, violence can find you no matter how peaceful you are, how much you try to avoid it.