Need some advice about my father...

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My father just sent me this e-mail. The "rule" being referred to is that his new wife is not invited to family events in which my mother, sister, and myself are there. It's funny how some of his assumptions about how to treat people and what a decent person would do or want done are. Having AS, I don't see it. I am curious what you think. Am I way out of line to say that my father should come alone to joint gatherings, or we just have separate ones to accommodate them? The people I have talked to at work and elsewhere do not seem to think it is unreasonable.

Some more data to help in your assessment:

I did not attend their wedding. I had no interest and the idea made me ill, plus it was last minute and I already had plans.

My father attended my son's birthday party last year, but left unannounced without saying "Happy Birthday!" to my son. It was my birthday as well, and he didn't say squat to me either.

I do not like her. She sent a scathing e-mail ripping me for being an emotionless robot, my wife for not controlling me, my sister for being 38 and unmarried, and, more importantly, my mom for draining his money and time from the alimony. My mom stayed at home while he was in the Navy and took care of us, so she gets half of his retirement per the US Government. Plus she gets an additional amount per the divorce. I wrote a response to her e-mail in the Dear "You"...From "Me"-Letters Unsent Thread a few months ago.

My father brought another woman into the last two years of his marriage to my mom. I won't go into the details, but my mom was desperate and accepted this for awhile. Apparently it did not go too well.

My father has been emotionally vacant my whole life. Now, he is desperate to have some close relationship when it really doesn't matter much anymore. When he asks me what I want, I tell him to be a good grandfather. He is failing miserably.

I really do not need this now. Dealing with my realization of AS. Just got fired from my program at work. Already dealing with anxiety attacks since last fall. Argh!! !

I'll post updates when I think of more.


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Darryl (and Lara),

Please, please, please, DO NOT RESPOND by e-mail. Call me or meet me and talk to me.

Invitation #1: I am not intending to start an argument. I would prefer a dialog face to face, but to use the appropriate term for how things are......."this is lame."

I would love to meet with you, adults only, and talk about "rules" and feelings. Let's not shoot e-mails back and forth into each others' hearts. We are struggling here. Tell me when and where we can meet after work and try to rise above these crippled relationships and insecurities. We both have problems, let's face them and solve them. We are doing a very bad job of communicating, of reading minds and interpreting intentions. I can meet in any night after 6:30 pm.

First of all Darryl, any time Betty and I meet with you and the family, you don't say hello to her, you don't talk to her, and you don't even say good bye even when she is standing right beside you. That is the simplest of human courtesies that you would offer to a stranger when introduced to them. You act like she is invisible or you want her to disappear. Betty is not a threat to you, the kids, or you mom. She is not attempting to be their grandmother, she just offers the same friendship, love and kindness that anyone would like to give or receive. Shunning her offends me deeply and it hurts her to the point of tears and breakdown. That is the fact of you actions or inaction. That treatment would do the same thing to anyone in the same situation. Is this your intent? I have never and would never do such a thing to any human being much less someone you cared about. I would do what ever I needed to do to acknowledge the presents of another human being and make them feel welcome.

By sending me an e-mail mid-day on Friday and not calling to confirm, and I am sure others got called, it sure seems like you had no intention that I really be there. When "we" set up separate events as you note, I am the one doing the inviting most of the time. Using your rule, I would have expected you to have offered an alternate invitation for Betty and I to come by some other time over the weekend as well. You gave no alternatives to you late invite. There was just an implied ultimatum to comply with the "rule."

We didn't discuss the "rule," you told me the rule. Discuss at least implies communication and an attempt to reach agreement. You make a "family rule" that only applies to me without my input or concurrence. At least the rule has only ever been stated in terms of me. Have you both had the guts to tell everyone in the family what this family rule is and that if anyone violates it, the same consequences will apply to them? No divorces, no second significant others, no new spouses, no new people in the family. Or will it or does it?

Do the kids especially and the rest of the families know you made this rule, or are you letting them think I (we) don't want to see them and that I (we) don't love them? My God, the birthdays and holidays are for the kids, not for all us dysfunctional adults. Maybe you think the adults can't be saved but we are setting the kids up to feel unwanted and unloved when that is the biggest of lies.

Your rule is not to protect your mom. She and I have been separated and divorced for over 8 years and we have both moved on. It must be to protect you. You do not have the right to make such a rule in the first place, and especially if it is not publicized to all to view in the hard light of day and human logic.

Meet me and "discuss" the "rule." If it stands after that, we will publish it to the family and explain it jointly to the kids.

Invitation #2: Now, whether we remain in this rut or move into a more fertile relationship, Betty and I love all of you and miss you terribly. We invite you and the family to come spend the day Saturday the 15th or Sunday the 16th of September to celebrate birthdays, catch up on our lives, and try to enjoy each others company. I am extending the invitation to Robyn as well and hope that all of you can visit at the same time. Please advise soonest so I can coordinate with Robyn.

Last edited by Trigger11 on 05 Sep 2007, 12:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

Hello,

Have you asked your mother what she thinks? Does she not want your father at family events?

What role do you want for your father in your life? In your children's life?

There is no easy answer. Can you give me some more background please?

I don't think the e-mail your stepmother sent you was appropriate. Certainly not a way to 'win friends and influence people'

Helen

wow, what a post. What does your mom think of the rule? even though they have been divorced for 8 years she may feel uncomfortable with the "new" wife, especially since it doesn't sound like the marriage ended well at all. I don't think she should be allowed to come if it makes everyone feel uncomfortable, because the kids will pick up on that too (kids are not stupid, they know these things!) You may have to have 2 "celebrations" for both your mother and father. However, even though you don't like the new wife you probably should at least tell her hello and goodbye (and then ignore her in the time in between) and no one said you had to look at her when you did it. But at the same time, I feel it is equally incredibly rude of your father not to tell you or your son Happy Birthday last year.

What are your thoughts about meeting with him to discuss it? I would think emails would be better because it is easier to put in writing your feelings than to talk about them because of the emotions involved.

I want him to be a grandfather to my kids. I don't need a "daddy", I am 36 now.

It's funny, I suppose, because I love him as my father, but I don't miss him. Despite him living just 30-45 minutes away and not having contact with him for months on end, I am just...whatever.

You can infer what was in her letter from my response, which I never sent, in the Dear "You"...From "Me"-Letters Unsent Thread. You can also get a pretty detailed way about how I think about stuff from my planned response. That occurred last fall.

My mother tries to take the high ground and not come between us. She says she would be okay if he came and even if his new wife came, but I know my mom and she is only saying that for my benefit. My sister and I cannot stand his new wife. My wife can't stand her either. Not after her e-mail ripping us all.

okay, I finally read the unsent email. It sounds extremely complicated, why are you against some kind of family counseling? because honestly it seems that it may be the only way to work any of it out.

I hate to leave it at this but my oldest just woke up crying and is now in my bed, but will continue with you tomorrow.

You want him to be a grandfather for your kids.

Do they have any interests in common.

My father-in-law loves chess and so do my sons. He plays chess with them regularly and has taken my 9 year old to a chess tournament.

My Dad has a special ritual of taking the boys to their favourite bakery.

Can you organise a regular outing for your children with your Dad.

I think having him at family occasions is a recipe for tension.

Helen

Just read my planned e-mail to his wife last year. If I got started in person on some of that, I think it would be way more hurtful to my father than via e-mail. He seems to think that e-mail is the problem, since that is the only way we communicate. To make things clear, I acknowledge her when she speaks to me and whatnot, but no, I do not say unnecessary pleasantries. I don't do that with anyone though, so I don't see why I should treat her differently. I'm socially inept. What can I say? i should be a cyborg living in the internet via a wi-fi connection.

For what it is worth, he didn't call tonight, even though he said he would. Typical!

okay, fair enough, but you didn't answer my question, why not family counseling???

It seems like I was not responding to individual questions, when in reality I was trying to type this whole mess up, while searching for the link to my other post, while downloading an update for my computer on 44 Kbps dial-up, while posting here, and while trying to keep up on the Alphabet Game and the Word Association Game.

As far as family counseling goes...I have an issue with this, since my father has never once sat down and just been a father or a grandfather. If he shows some effort at that, then maybe I would consider discussing stuff further in such a setting. The problem is, I am really concerned that if we actually air everything out, it would be worse. If he knew everything I thought about him and this situation, I think that would drive a deeper wedge between us than what exists because we have separate family outings. He doesn't know about the e-mail exchange between my wife, his wife, and myself that culminated in my unsent letter. I never told him my thoughts about what he did to our mother, especially in the end and the years after the divorce. He did a lot of other stuff too that we are convinced he was put up to by his new wife, since these were very bitter actions. My sister, wife, and I all think his wife wants to drive us out. She is very controlling and manipulative. She does stuff with my kids without asking permission, which has my wife pissed off more than she is at me. She treats my dad like a baby when we are around them. It's quite disturbing. I think that goes back to his issues with is mom, my grandmother, who is a real b***h. Even today at 90 she is a self-centered, manipulative control freak.

Last edited by Trigger11 on 05 Sep 2007, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

then in that case stick to your rule. But I would make sure that you and your wife make sure she does not take your kids out without permission, especially if she is this manipulative. I don't think the rule is unfair at all. As far as any family get togethers, keep them separate if you can.

The latest news!

This is what I sent:

We have some plans both days this weekend, so I do not think we can travel your way to get together. As far as the "rule", it is what it is. It is my decision, based upon on everything I have perceived and personally believe, and is not meant to, but understandably, hurts some people. I am going through too much stuff in my life right now to deal with this anytime soon. One could just as easily argue the opposite side that "for the kids" you accommodate for it. I am sorry you didn't get my e-mail in time. As I said, I am going through a lot right now and cannot be expected to please everyone all of the time. I'm tired of even trying.


Here is his response:

I am disappointed in many ways.

I know you are going thru a lot from what you say, but you are going to be just like your grandfathers, me, and your uncles Paul and Ronnie, just keep it to yourself until it explodes with disastrous consequences for everyone around but most of all yourself. Ten years ago I was "too smart" to seek help and understanding from those close to me even when some wise person told me I needed to. Some day and I hope soon you will learn like all of us do that a man is never his own best counsel. He can deceive himself far too easily, more easily than anyone else can. It took 5 more years for me to get smart and lay things out with others to work to a solution. Now I am watching you at age 35 well down the same road with your own set of baggage. I know were some of that road leads because I was on it 20 more years than you, but will you listen or ask for me to listen to you? I can help you avoid 20 years of grief and heart ache. If you are tired now, you haven't even begun if you don't have someone to share the load. If you need financial help to seek counseling, treatment, whatever the need to work through this, I will help. I want to get you our of this and into a happier place. It is time to work with someone you can trust and who get help you. Its time to do something.

I noted that once again you never talked to the issues I addressed to you in my e-mails, you never answer the questions asked. And most of all, you refuse to do what I ask and call me or talk to me. If anyone is to live by your rules, they at least are owed a full explanation of the rules. We do get to read the rule book don't we? I made a couple of points and all you did revert to the rule and avoid a response. You are like a football referee umpiring a baseball game - the rules don't fit, you are on the wrong field making calls that are not relevant to those around you. Why don't you just become a player in the game of life instead of its umpire? It is more enjoyable. Just be a man and take off the mask and tell me what you are thinking and feeling face to face because the "rule" is just a mask, a shield, a charade and a cop-out to avoid having to do just that.

I'll tell you about your "rules." You made a rule 8-9 years ago for your mother and it ended up making her chose between you or me and she chose you. If she did have to make that choice, we might have worked things out over the next 6 months. She was too afraid of you and still is. You meddle in others lives more than you have a right to in order to serve yourself.

Betty has nothing to do with where our family is or is not. She came into this just like Dana's boyfriend or Mike's girlfriend. Do you treat them the same? Or is your anger at me so intense that you have to be cruel to make a point? What is it about her that you are afraid of? One day you are going to have to admit it to yourself (stop the deception) and admit it to me.

I will pray for you, because now is the time you need the moral and spiritual strength to face the who and the what and forge a new path.

The invitation is now for the weekend of 22 or 23 Sept. If you don't care to come, Betty and I would like to invite Megan and Josh to visit Saturday and spend the night. We will bring them home Sunday morning.

I am inviting you now to come down for the Winter Holiday. Since we are on the way to your in-laws and only 10 minutes off the interstate it should not be too big a burden. You and the family have the choice of 21, 22, 23, 24, 27, 28, 29, 30 December, or 1 January.

Whoa...so in effect he's pinning the blame for everything that occurred 8 years ago on your shoulders? Bull$@*&. Definitely some issues here and I don't believe they're yours.

Honestly after reading your description of the new wife's actions and about her scathing email...I would have to say you are a bigger person than I. If faced with the same situation I probably wouldn't even utter a hello her way in acknowledgment. I don't allow toxic people in my life unless it's unavoidable anymore...I've found out over the years that it's a no win situation when you do...you end up paying with either your sanity or your health. Both are too precious a commodity.

Thanks!

In case it wasn't clear, that rule refers to a joint decision that my now wife and I made that we would not be comfortable around them when the other woman was around. When he announced the other woman, I accepted it, under the belief that it is not my place to decide how any other person, including my parents, finds their happiness. My Mom accepted it to save the marriage, but clearly didn't want the situation. I feel guilty to this day for not standing up right then and there and saying it was disrespectful to my Mom to bring this other woman into their marriage. I should have, but did nto want to meddle.

He keeps insisting on meeting instead of email - does he usually get his way in person?

I once taped a letter to my mother, that I never gave her. At the end I was sobbing and begging her to get help. She had Alzheimers. But she didn't get help, so I got counseling for myself, and life was that much better for it.

delete double post

My planned response:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=908160#908160

This is the weird thing. Despite his actions and how he hurt my Mother, I chose not to go into that stuff and move on. He lives within 40 miles and we see him on average twice a year. This has been going on for a long time and long before he remarried. I do not want to have a face-to-face to discuss all of this, because if the truth really comes out, and he can see my face when I speak it, I fear the wedge between us will be so deep that it will effectively and our relationship. He is my Father and I do not want to keep him from his grandkids, so I don't want that to happen. The rule about him coming alone to joint family events was agreed upon by everyone else involved. None of us are comfortable with her around. Not my Sister, my Mom, my Wife, or even me. I cannot understand why he cannot respect that. It's like he is trying to force us to choose. We are even willing to do separate family events to accommodate them. Argh!