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digger1
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01 Aug 2008, 11:43 am

sitting here watching the Outdoor network, there's a show about big game hunting in Africa. They're hunting elephants.

I--I'm sorry, "hunting" elephants"

Sorry, but you don't "hunt" something that's standing there 20 feet away looking at you.

YTF would you want to kill an elephant in the first place? Population control? HA!



JerryHatake
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01 Aug 2008, 12:30 pm

^Actually that is illegal due elephants are on the endanger species list.


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MrSinister
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01 Aug 2008, 5:27 pm

digger1 wrote:
YTF would you want to kill an elephant in the first place? Population control? HA!


When I was on holiday in South Africa, a gamekeeper actually said that he and his colleagues have to cull elephants from time to time.

Shooting them for fun, however, is disgusting.


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digger1
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01 Aug 2008, 5:36 pm

yeah, it's not like you can tie them up and carry them off on your back.



spudnik
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01 Aug 2008, 5:46 pm

I wonder what elephant tastes like, I am thinking of some Flintstones sized ribs, my friend went to a restaurant called Carnivore, in Nairobi Kenya, they roast the meat on those long Maasi spears.
http://www.africanmeccasafaris.com/keny ... nivore.asp



MrSinister
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02 Aug 2008, 8:39 am

digger1 wrote:
yeah, it's not like you can tie them up and carry them off on your back.


And you'd likely need a pretty big Land Rover to take them home for the kids to eat, as well.

I just don't get the mentality of people like this, I really don't.


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Metal_Man
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02 Aug 2008, 9:14 am

Some African nations actually have healthy elephant populations and the only way to keep them at sustainable levels is to hunt them. The hunts are carefully regulated and not open to just anybody. It is also a major source of income for the people who live in these areas.


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ed
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02 Aug 2008, 11:36 am

On the planet I was supposed to go to, the people and the elephants coexist peacefully and happily :D

Elephants are very intelligent animals; who knows, possibly more intelligent than us. We know their memories are far superior to ours. We've just recently learned that they communicate with each other using sub-sonic frequencies. Who are we to "cull" elephants? Perhaps they should be culling us :lol:

I've seen there are TV shows about elephants going after people. Good for them; it's about time! :lol:


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Dox47
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02 Aug 2008, 2:49 pm

Actually, the usual arrangement is that the hunter gets whatever trophies he wants, then the rest of the meat goes to the PH and his crew. It's not like the old west and buffalo where they took the skin and left the meat to rot, very little actually goes to waste. Without hunting, many of the native farmers view large land mammals as pest animals that damage their crops, and kill them as such. By attaching a large revenue stream to them, the locals view them as a source of income and take much better care of them than they otherwise would. Hunters are actually some of the most conservation minded people out there, many wilderness preserves here in the states owe their existence to hunters. Look a little more carefully before you demonize someone.



ed
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02 Aug 2008, 8:33 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Actually, the usual arrangement is that the hunter gets whatever trophies he wants, then the rest of the meat goes to the PH and his crew. It's not like the old west and buffalo where they took the skin and left the meat to rot, very little actually goes to waste. Without hunting, many of the native farmers view large land mammals as pest animals that damage their crops, and kill them as such. By attaching a large revenue stream to them, the locals view them as a source of income and take much better care of them than they otherwise would. Hunters are actually some of the most conservation minded people out there, many wilderness preserves here in the states owe their existence to hunters. Look a little more carefully before you demonize someone.


I couldn't possibly disagree with you more; I think people who kill elephants should be executed.


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Dox47
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02 Aug 2008, 8:58 pm

ed wrote:
I couldn't possibly disagree with you more; I think people who kill elephants should be executed.


You're displaying a fundamental lack of understanding of third world economics here. Without foreign hunters paying good money for guided expeditions, elephants have no economic value to the natives. In that situation they are killed as pests, or killed by poachers because the illicit ivory market is the only way to profit from them. Try telling a starving villager that he can't make money to feed his family because you think it's wrong to hurt elephants. When the locals realize that far more money can be made by controlled hunting of the elephants than by slaughtering them for their ivory, they manage them responsibly. Your method was tried, it didn't work.



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02 Aug 2008, 9:46 pm

^Fascinating. Do you have any sources?


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Dox47
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02 Aug 2008, 10:48 pm

twoshots wrote:
^Fascinating. Do you have any sources?


Here you go!

http://conservationfinance.wordpress.co ... t-hunting/

http://nnf.org.na/RARESPECIES/InfoSys/e ... onomic.htm

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Publ ... ities.html

http://www.iwmc.org/elephant/981127.htm

The last link has a particularly good explanation of the relationship between economics and conservation as they apply to native peoples and impoverished countries. I know it seems counterintuitive, but well regulated hunting has actually helped to increase the elephant population by providing an incentive for the local peoples to protect the animals.