Sexism against guys

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Well those are stupid, ignoring it certianly DOESN'T make people stop harassing you. It's pathetic. Its like they expect you to take the responsibility to try and prevent it when they just SHOULD'NT BE DOING IT... period. makes me really MAD!

Try reading--and quoting--the whole sentence; the thing that makes it oppressive is the fact that he's both aware and willing to take advantage of the material conditions.

There will always be people of differing abilities. Under certain libertarian concepts of justice, whoever is most able to screw everyone else over should be able to, as a matter of freedom. I try to support concepts of justice that value human beings equally, and do a certain amount of protecting those who are less able in a variety of ways.


Edit:
Exactly what systems that balance the equation by favoring women do you think I'm advocating for?

Last edited by Jainaday on 30 Sep 2008, 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Baltimore.

So. . . Guys in schools have people grabbing at their genitalia and describing what they want to do to it?

sounds more like prison. . . and don't get me wrong, prisons reform is a big deal; just. . . I didn't really see a lot of that going on in my HS, to guys at least.

I'm not saying physical harassment isn't a problem that needs to be fixed, but it is a different problem.

Edit:

And what exactly do you mean by victims taking matters into their own hands?

What I meant by taking matters into their own hands is fighting back(physically). If you're being grabbed and fondled against your will than I say bring a weapon if thats what it takes to stop it. Im really amazed how few young women bother to arm themselves-either with pistols or even TASERS as means of rape prevention. Obviously that cant be done in HighSchool but it certainly could be done in college and beyond. As for guys in schools, they have people beating them up, shoving them down, giving them wedgies in the locker room and in some extreme cases getting broom handles shoved up their asses(NO JOKE).
A common bullying tactic is for guys to gang up and corner some guy they're picking on in the locker room and then piss all over him...

I have a black belt, so I have to start off by saying that I agree with the idea of self defense.
However, women in general are taught from a very young age that a woman getting into fights is disgusting. I am not exaggerating - that word is explicitely used by some men, and even some women. The only time when female fighting is even remotely considered acceptable is when it is used as a turn-on for men, and that's not supposed to be 'effective' fighting in terms of self defense - it's supposed to be scratching and hair-pulling and weak punches in a mud pit, preferrably with very little clothing on.

as far as bringing a weapon - the previous poster was snapped at by a teacher for throwing a wad of paper at a boy who was groping her. What do you think would have happened to her if she had tazed the guy, or pulled a knife?

Most weapons carried for self defense end up used against the victim in the case of an actual assault.

What's your blackbelt in? I study Jujitsu. . . which is very good in certain situations, but not great against everyday harassment. .

As I said, physical harassment is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Whether the two categories should be separated is a subject of longstanding dispute among serious feminists and language deconstructionists. In some ways, it seems to me more useful that we focus on the destructive gender role assumptions that fall at the root of both kinds of abuse: For men, that violence is key to manhood, and that those less competent in violence deserve to be victims on the recieving end of it--and women, that they are largely objects for the sexual gratification of men.


Edit: also, rape and harassment aren't just issues for young women. . . it's really not appearance specific.

If you're talking about non-mechanical weapons such as knives or martial arts weapons there's some truth to that. But if you're talking about firearms or TASERs thats nonsense. Anti-gun liberals promulgate myths like that but Im telling you, 99.99%
of men out there would NOT attack a woman they knew had a gun and had it on her! They strongly prefer victims who dont own firearms or TASERs.

I taught a two-week class for high school students at university one summer, and I was astonished at the way the boys pulled at my attention. They really went all out to get all the attention and they made it fun to pay attention to them. They really seem to need it, and thrive on being the centre of attention. It was horrible - I felt so bad for constantly being distracted away from the good girls at the front of the class who dutifully took notes quietly. But at the same time it was fun.

I've seen this over and over again in movies and in real life - where the boys get the lion's share of the attention, and no one seems to mind or even notice. It's really mind-boggling, but I think it's pretty normal. Girls really do need their own space.

Notice how even in the women's forum men are getting so much attention?

Ive read repeatedly that boys are more likely to be disruptive in class whereas girls are more likely to talk in class. I can remember being in middle school where there were a group of boys being very obnoxious in order to disrupt class and get attention while at the same time there were 2 girls passing notes...ah, school days . In highschool though, boy, girls often get a Lot more attention and encouragement from teachers. BTW Jainaday, your rant about what guys do to girls in highschool reminded me of what Girls do to each other AND to boys and I have to say: When girls decide to be mean to someone they are much crueler than boys!

I make it a note not to a quote a whole passage, because it clutters the space. Hence I quoted what, from my perspective, appeared to be your most important point. I like to keep at least a mildly clean space. Not those long quotes of long quotes of long quotes that appear too often on forums.

You were responding to response about staring, and where that led to from haliphron.

If you had cut out the part about "but she that doesn't really have the option to do the same with you", and made it more clear what you consider "willingness to take advantage of" meant, than the sentence would be STRIKINGLY different.

If for instance, the willingness to take advantage of the fact, includes actually attacking a person or showing to the person consciously what one could do, in order to scare them, than it is oppression, regardless of the strength of the other person.

Trying to do that to someone bigger than you might seem stupid...but it still fits the bill. You would still be attempting to marginlize the bigger person...regardless of whether you are successful.

However, Haliphron never said he actively SHOWED the girl he could beat her up. (for example by flexing, punching something, etc.) He simply said, that she probably knew he could beat her up. What he did say he did was basically told her to "f*** off" after what he considered to be rude.

so my issue would be the vagueness of "willingness to take advantage of the fact." and that other point of the "option".

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I simply have a problem with any system that tries to balance the equation by overcompensating for something or lack thereof.

You would have to tell me what you advocate.

Based on previous comments by other users in the thread, and what you seem to have contention with, I simply decided it would be useful to provide some examples in my last reply.

That way if such systems were "advocated" by someone in this thread, the argument against their Deficits would already be presented, and I would not have to make a whole new reply for them.

Perhaps this is the reason some (young)women aggressively flaunt their sexuality, because they get attention for it...ESPECIALLY from men . LKL: I have to wonder if because you're a woman and your straight you so paid more attention to the boys than the girls...though maybe not intentionally. I would've HATED to have been sent to an all-boys highschool! The play between guys and girls makes it more interesting. Another possibility is the boys in LKLs class were very socially adept and knew how to get LKLs attention.

Can you give me some sort of reference on that? Everything I've read disagrees with you. . and honestly, so does what experience I've had in armed fights. I suspect my assertion is more true the less training and fight experience a person has had.

this is not the conclusion studies support, unless you are referencing of research I've not heard of?



. . .

So?

I'm against rape, harassment, and abuse, no matter who is doing it to who. I believe gender dynamics in our society--like the fact that guys do better in school when there's someone around to be "better" than--increase the incidence of these things. If you have suggestions about how to decrease the level of a kind of cruelty that generally comes from women, I'd be glad to hear it.

I don't believe, in my own experience, that I've seen either gender being more horrid than the other over all.

I don't mind quoting less than a whole passage; I mind quoting in such a way that it entirely changes the meaning of what's been said. You left out--and complained about--that element of "human/animal involvement" that I'd included.



True. If I had written something different from what I wrote, it would have been different; if I had written it more clearly, it would have been clearer. I don't feel this excuses you reading the whole sentence before disagreeing with what it didn't say.



Those seem like reasonable issues.

Positioning one's self physically close and then screaming cuss words at someone, if that person is much smaller and/or weaker than one's self, carries a clear undercurrent of physical intimidation.

I've had someone threaten to kill me for cussing. I understand that this is not how cuss words function in most of America today, but they are a time honored way of escalating conflicts; the only things after cuss words and yelling are quite physical.

He essentially stated that he was amazed someone who wouldn't be able to defend herself would dare to be rude to someone who could successfully execute violence against her. When she was rude to him, he reminded her of the fact that he could successfully execute violence against her to keep her in her place.

As far as having the "option" of doing the same to him: you don't have the option of threatening someone with a gun if you don't have a gun. You don't have the option of intimidating someone with your greater size and strength if you don't have a greater size and strength.




In principle--and in practise--I am against this also.

However, a lot of people feel that we are experiencing this problem now, with regards to gender relations, and I do not.

I'm not sure, in a legal sense, what ought to be done against all these things; I do know that I feel social change is a worthy goal, so I try to strongly advocate for that.

Well first of all, dont believe everything you read!
The logic behind wielding a pistol against a potential attacker as a deterrent is so plainly obvious Im suprised you areny cynical to claims of the contrary. Statistics cannot trump logic, EVAR. Futhermore, if someone is 10 feet away from you and you have your pistol drawn you could EASILY shoot them before they get close enough to try to grab it from you. All it takes is a little basic training and a little practice at the firing range. Many liberals think that statistics equates to proof of something, I however am one who Does NOT.