Being female and being opinionated.

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I love opinionated women. I'm not really attracted to anyone who doesn't have their own ideas.

Anyway as for opinions rubbing people up the wrong way, as the saying goes: "Opinions are like a***holes, everybody's got one..."

In retrospect, my father's wife gets some ostracism at work for what she perceives to be her woman-derived opinions.
She is brilliant, and extremely strong willed, and she complains regularly about bad experiences with coworkers who try to work around her or undermine her, are passive aggressive, or just blow up at her. Having gotten to know her over the past 10 years, I can say with certainty that the problem is that she lacks an understanding of tact, and the interpretation of her words. It's not that she doesn't try; She certainly tries. She just doesn't understand when she's being coarse or provocative, nor the degree to which she's provoking.

You should hear this woman try to make a joke. You know, the personal, jabbing sort? With her it just comes out like a casual insult.

As an opinionated woman myself, I'd usually have a lot to say, but I see most of it has been covered. I really only have one thing to add. Being an opinionated woman has one huge advantage -- people who are attracted to confident, opinionated women are exactly the kind of people you want to know! My husband -- who is also my best friend -- admires my independence, my passion, and my intelligence, all of which are components in making me the opinionated woman I am!

Michsta, I am glad that being pretty helps you... Hale_bopp, I can be very loud as well. I think that perhaps women are sort of groomed by society to be, as Sound said, more cooperative, and more agreeable. Perhaps I am no more opinionated than the average woman, but it s just that I live by different rules so I am more likely to express it.

0_equals_true.. great that you like opinionated women...

I dont reallly know if men dislike opinionated women as such, I think that society itself frowns upon it though.

Rose in winter, it is true that we attract iinteresting people!

Sound, I want to comment further on what you have written but I need to go do my outdoor work now, I will have a closer look at your post this evening, otherwise my reply will be rushed and poorly thought out....

I think the problem is wanting to win an argument, or wanting to be right can bring out the bigoted snipes. It is an emotional thing. "How dare some disagree with me and a woman too! My poor ego". The more people think they are on to something the more their might stereotype the opposition in their head. I tend to see everything is dynamic anyway, most people views are extremely moldable.

0_equals_true, yes i do think most people really hate having their beliefs challenged. They seem to take it almost as an insult. that is why I try and stay away from a lot of sensitive topics these days. When I was younger though I used to get involved in untold amounts of arguments with people over their ideas.

That is the whole problem though, we aspie women often lack tact... And, there are many people who are uncomfortable with opinonated people, because they like a neutral environment with minimal conflict. I have actually hung out with glamorous, classy people and been the loudmouth amongst them and i know this for a fact.



I agree with that, I have actually found that on the whole, men are more comfortable with my personality than females are. I think males can enjoy a bit of an argument as they are used to verbal jostling with their friends, but females dont verbally jostle with each other, unless they hate each other.



Probably true, I have often wanted to be more refined and be one of those understated sorts of people but i am actually a passionate, impulsive person so this can result in me being bullish, coarse and tactless, though I try and watch myself.



Yes there is more tolerance for that sort of behaviour in men, but how did women become so compliant? Perhaps it is a behaviour that evolved as women had to band together to bring up children as a village, and the most sucessful woman was the one who could cooperate the best and keep the group together.

Dont assume though that women have been selecting men for milennia- there would have been a wide range of reasons that certain mates got together, ranging from female selection, a male selecting the female, or matches beng arranged for reasons that benefit the families of the two.



I dont think either gender is to blame for it. But I think that society as a whole seems to have desired patterns of behaviour for both genders.

I used to be a lot more opinionated when I was younger. I was a freaking communist and an evangelical atheist! I'd tell people that at every opportunity because it made me feel clever.

Now my opinions, and the way I interact, have changed. I cringe at what I now chalk up to being a teenager. That said, I still like to discuss politics, philosophy and generally everything else, at great depth. I'm not so opinionated anymore, but some people still think I am because of the sheer amount of detail I like to go into.

Quite a lot of people (male and female) really hate discussing things, and they think you're 'rocking the boat' just by bringing it up. They could be really nice people, otherwise, and it's just a personality trait you have to respect.

I've had to learn who the people are that I can have discussions with and which people are easily upset by ideas that aren't their own. I find men in general more open to discussing things, but some women are, as well.

I find there is a not-so-small minority of men who feel like delta-males, but want to be alphas - and see a woman discussing something as an affront to their quest for power. It sounds really stupid, but they are really that insecure about their masculinity. Their whole problem is clinging to their stupid notions of masculinity, anyway - but they don't realise that. I really have no time for people like that; I just avoid interacting with them.

This is true.

People, and I mean men and women, are more likely to interpret an opinionated man as a leader and an opinionated woman as a b!tch.

It's a curious thing, perhaps it is my perception but I couldn't help but to notice that female politicians are often received less warmly and endure more criticism and receive less forgiveness than male politicians, even in light of all the political scandals that have dogged almost exclusively male politicians.

I realize this is an old thread, but I happened across it today. I am female and strongly opinionated. I have been this way for most of my life, but remained more complacent in my childhood years, for fear of backlash.

As an adult woman with strong opinions, I must agree. It hasn't made me very many friends, even if the opinions are over something as trivial as food preferences or weather. People become offended all too easily and they assign themselves to inanimate things like clothing, trends, fads, culture, religion, and so forth - taking personal offense if you have an opposing viewpoint.

I assign myself to many things, but do not take personal offense if someone else says "it's not for me, and here is why..."

I think everyone is different and we are all entitled to what works best for us, as long as those preferences do not harm another person. Sadly, most people cannot grasp this concept, and they are especially unforgiving when women step forward and voice their minds.

I am an opinionated woman. I've had no success with guys whatsoever, though I think being opinionated is one of many, many contributing factors. I think that as usual, the defining factor is appearance. If the woman is attractive, guys will be happy that she's opinionated and intelligent, but being opinionated and intelligent won't make up for not being attractive. From what I've seen, most guys would prefer a woman who was attractive to one who was opinionated and intelligent.

That said, when it comes to making friends, I find that being opinionated tends to get me in trouble a lot more with other females than with males. Males seem more likely to appreciate my outspokenness as a friend, while females are easily offended and view me as strange, rude, etc. I was told this summer, by a woman, that I scare people because "I'm smart and I know what I want." Not quite sure what that means, but likely related to being opinionated... On the other hand I have guys who admired--but only platonically--my ability to say what I wanted and what I thought was important, which is often crucial to getting things done if everyone else is standing there going, "Uh...I don't care." The attitude I got from many guys in high school was, "She can be a b***h, but she's smart and she gets things done." Whereas the attitude I got from girls was, "She's a b***h, period."

I'm very opinionated and married to an opinionated man. But, I tend to keep my opinions to myelf, unless I'm talking to very close family or friends. He doesn't and can go off on a monologue about some stuff, especially politics and work. He doesn't notice that he's boring the other people or that they're trying to get a word in. It's one thing about him that more spectrum-like than me.

I just happened upon this and it really resonated with me, since I do it all the time

“Why do girls always feel like they have to apologize for giving an opinion or taking up space in the world? Have you ever noticed that?” Nicole asked. “You go on websites and some girl leaves a post and if it’s longer than three sentences or she’s expressing her thoughts about some topic, she usually ends with, ‘Sorry for the rant’ or ‘That may be dumb, but that’s what I think.”
—

Beauty Queens by Libba Bray

I have noticed that "apologizing for saying what you think" thing because i have done it.

I attended an all-girls' school, and one of the things my teachers focused on was that we did not have to apologize for our thoughts and opinions. If someone said, "I'm sorry, but," or ended her thought with, "sorry if that's dumb," the teacher would say, "Don't apologize; you haven't done anything wrong!" For this reason, I never got into the whole "sorry for thinking what I think and sharing it with you," mindset. I've noticed in my schooling since then, that this lack of apology rubs a lot of women the wrong way. I actually had a group of girls in one class ask me why I was "trying to be a man." I asked in what way I was doing that, and it boiled down to the fact that I shared thoughts and opinions in class, even if they weren't popular ones or were different from what the professor was saying -- and didn't act sorry when I did so! Apparently, I am supposed to keep my mouth shut, or apologize for having an opinion. Hell, no!

Whoa now, wait a minute.

Men vary just as much as women do.

I vastly prefer intelligent women to the ones society describes as hot. The hot ones just look like vacant whores to me.

Though some hot women are also freakishly intelligent, and that's cool.

As to being outspoken, that's a tricky word. It can mean stridently screaming BS at the top of your lungs, or it can mean courageously offering very informed and coherent opinions and beliefs and challenging irrational or cruel beliefs.

The former is a harpy b***h. The latter is a really cool woman who should speak up more often because she has important things to say which deserve to be heard.

I think that was cool of your original school, and a very important idea.

Most modern schools tend to indoctrinate students into passive regurgitation rather than proactive analysis and articulation of previously unspoken ideas. So kids aren't trained to take intellectual risks and make bold statements, because they don't have the tools to walk back those statements in light of new facts. It's tragic. I think something like that is why people come out of the school system totally incapable of speaking with authority; because they've never been given any by their teachers.

I love this guy's speech on the subject, and it absolutely applies to both genders:

http://www.wimp.com/speakconviction/

ETA: Heck, I'm adding that to my sig.