do you feel like you have a male brain in a female body?
I don't see what's offensive about Baron-Cohen's theory. He's made some interesting progress in showing how the divide between male and female brains isn't so much based on social factors as we once thought. And I'm sure that when he says that autistics have an extreme male-brain, he is using it to refer to our systemising-empathising abilities and not to our propensity to commit rape. Why would you think that?
Also, what difference does it make whether he is showing that females tend to be more inclined to empathising and males towards systematising? He is not saying that women as a rule will be weaker at systematising and vice-versa. There is evidence, albeit not conclusive, to show that it is true, even before social factors can be accounted for. So the theory is not necessarily crap as you say. In any case, if his theory truly is crap then it will no doubt be pulled to pieces by others - hopefully by those interested in advancing science and not their own political agendas.
SolaCatella
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I have to agree with Enigmatic_Oddity. To be honest, while I do believe that social factors account for some of the differences between genders, one wonders how even the idea of the gender difference got started. If there wasn't a difference between the way males in general and females in general think/emote/act, how do you propose the original idea got started? Personally, considering the effects of sex hormones such as estrogen and testosterone on neurological function as a starting point, I am inclined to believe that there is at least some general difference between the brain function of males and females.
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cogito, ergo sum.
non cogitas, ergo non es.
I've been a tomboy all my life. When the other girls in the neighbourhood were playing with dolls and such, I was down in the basement with my chemistry set and my Secret Sam Spy Kit.
Virtually all my attempts to do "girl things" have felt weird to me. Never wore much makeup. Indifferent to the state of my hair. Hate, hate, hate high-heeled shoes. Really uncomfortable around touchy-feely people. A lot of trouble expressing emotion -- It comes out in one monstrous rush, or not at all.
But give me a gift certificate for the local hardware or electronics store, and I am sooo there.
Nomaken
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I don't feel like I have a female mind in a male body, I just think i'm dainty as a doily, and weird and whimsical.
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CockneyRebel
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all this time from your posting I never knew you were a female.. i always thought you were male.. hope that does not offend you.. i am so not into the FEMALE shallow attitude that I hear from so many of the woman I work with.. its purid.. I am so sick to death of hearing who won the latest reality TV show.. I think these folks need to get a life.. and do so soon.. i don't think i am big time into sports as most men are but I loathe the female attitude.. my mother in laws comment when her son was going to marry me.. OH GOD my son is gonna marry a TOMBOY! she was very surprised to see me on my wedding morning looking like a tasteful female.. i think she was really surprised.. my comment when she came running up to me... "gee I clean up pretty good don't I mom?"
That didn't offend me, at all. I actually take this as a compliment.
I'm really not sure. I'm not very into sports or model railways, but I do play computer games (although I dislike competing against other humans - apprently that's more common in males than females - but then, I don't mind competing against the computer, whereas girls apparently tend to not like competing at all). I don't wear high heels if I can avoid it, and the same goes for dresses, skirts and most make-up. (Although I do like wearing some earrings.) I tend to be quite bad at social communication, though.
I do tend to find males easier to socialise with than females - possibly because they see me as more of a novelty than a confusing annoyance. Men of my age group seem to be more 'socially robust' than females - I can joke with or play-insult them, and they'll 'get it' and continue the conversation, while girls often give me a strange look and then pretend I didn't say anything. (I think this capacity could be called bantering? (*checks dictionary*)) Boys are also usually easier to impress with knowledge, including obscure trivia (while a lot of girls count it as 'a weird thing to know'), and can usually have a somewhat intelligent - or at least opinionated - conversation, including discussing and analysing quirky and interesting things; whereas females seem to prefer to stick to other people, make-ups and their brands, clothes and clothes shops, and sometimes films or tv programs. Having said that, I can at times be more 'in touch with feelings' than the average male, which can lend an interesting perspective to some conversations. (For example, the group of boys I tend to sit with at college will cheerfully be having a male-perspective conversation, only to be suddenly interrupted by my innocent chipping-in, prior to my remembering that I'm actually not one of their gender and therefore should not be surprised when their way of interpreting things occasionally differs from my own. However, such conversations have been educational for both parties, so it's doubtful it could be considered a real problem.)
Hmm, long post. Sorry about that - I think I tangented somewhat. Still, hopefully it'll be of interest to someone.
I'm a tomboy, and I like dressing in more of a comfortable style, which oftentimes looks boyish and sporty. I'm interested in some boyish things, but despite my tomboyishness, I do like some "girly" things still. I'm also a cross-country runner and a trombone player if that says anything (since those things can still be male-dominated in some parts; especially women playing trombone). I can be girly at times; it's just that I do lots of things boyishly and I enjoy some boyish things.
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Musical_Lottie
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I do tend to find males easier to socialise with than females - possibly because they see me as more of a novelty than a confusing annoyance. Men of my age group seem to be more 'socially robust' than females - I can joke with or play-insult them, and they'll 'get it' and continue the conversation, while girls often give me a strange look and then pretend I didn't say anything. (I think this capacity could be called bantering? (*checks dictionary*)) Boys are also usually easier to impress with knowledge, including obscure trivia (while a lot of girls count it as 'a weird thing to know'), and can usually have a somewhat intelligent - or at least opinionated - conversation, including discussing and analysing quirky and interesting things; whereas females seem to prefer to stick to other people, make-ups and their brands, clothes and clothes shops, and sometimes films or tv programs. Having said that, I can at times be more 'in touch with feelings' than the average male, which can lend an interesting perspective to some conversations. (For example, the group of boys I tend to sit with at college will cheerfully be having a male-perspective conversation, only to be suddenly interrupted by my innocent chipping-in, prior to my remembering that I'm actually not one of their gender and therefore should not be surprised when their way of interpreting things occasionally differs from my own. However, such conversations have been educational for both parties, so it's doubtful it could be considered a real problem.)
Hmm, long post. Sorry about that - I think I tangented somewhat. Still, hopefully it'll be of interest to someone.


It was of interest to me! Your second paragraph sounded very much like myself, actually, but far more eloquent than i could ever write!
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I have always felt like a Tomboy born in a boys body, socially: I never felt male, but emotionally a lot more female than male. I was raised a boy and now live as a woman, my interests encompass both some classic masculine or feminine traits, I process info in a more masculine manner, but respond in a more feminine manner.
What percentage of my AS is nature or nuture is contentious, but gender dysphoria has certainly exasperated it.
KT
I answered no. I have MY brain in MY body.
As anandamide says, it's rather a construct. I score extremely high on Baron Cohen's systemising test, can fix almost anything techy, understand complex systems etc etc. But why should this be called 'male'?
(Had to edit this - I arrogantly said I could fix anything! Well, duh. Can I fix relationships...? Sort my accounts out...? Fix a date...? <rueful smiling>)
Last edited by lupin on 25 Aug 2006, 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I guess I call mine male, or at least not quite female, since I cannot relate to females at all, I cannot understand how they tick, process, or think, but it is much easier for me to relate to males. Though I do feel female though. But not like the majority of females out there.
I am very much not girly and never have been, never wear skirts or dresses, very rarely wear makeup and don't care at all about such things. I like to make up flat pack furniture and fixing things or figuring out how they work so i can attempt to fix them. I like fantasy and scif fi and D& D but have never really got into computer games. I get along much more easily with boys, especially geeks. Though i have had very close female friends, none of them have been girly.
I'm a lesbian and incidently i am attracted to both boyish and femine girls, though i do remember well the flush of have a lover who had a six pack from her gymnastics and rode a moterbike!! !
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I did before I hit puberty. After I hit puberty, I suddenly became interested in girly things. It was really weird. I was like, "Uhm why do I suddenly find babies adorable vs just plain annoying. And why do I suddenly have a appreciation for things that are colored pink?"
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