Do you consider women that used to be men as women?

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Yes. They are women; period.
A lot of people I know seem to have difficulties with this and are saying both things "he" and "she" or just going back to only using "he". I never had that problem; there simply is none to me.

If it's someone I don't know well, I have no trouble whatsoever.

That being said, I had a cousin-in-law, "Jimmy", who was part of the family for several years. He married my cousin "Jill" and they had a daughter. When his daughter was a teenager, he went from being "Jimmy" to being "Jenny". "Jenny" got a job at a department store in the lingerie department, and I realized I would not be willing to let, um, her help me try on a bra. I just have too many memories of this person as "Jimmy".

what you, and others said. whether they're pre or post-transition is not any of my bees wax and is irrelevant.

I see them as a woman. I really think this thread will be making some members who are transgender feel uncomfortable- I'm not trans but threads like this have an inherent sort of intolerance to them, like when people make threads like 'Do you think being gay is wrong?', as if those people's lives are debate fodder for 'normal' people. It's a bit like if neurotypicals were saying, 'Do you consider Asperger syndrome to be legitimate, or are people with it just need to get off the internet/stop being special snowflakes'? The point of my analogy is this thread is offensive.

I consider them people who used to be males physically, but I think I'd probably argue its more like they were a female trapped in a male body...rather then 'males' to begin with. If one identifies as a female then they are one, even if they haven't had a sex change at least that's how I see it.

No. (Not being biased or judgemental or giving my opinion, just answering the question honestly.)

Try as I might, my mind still separates transwomen from 'female at birth'. This is because the two have completely different experiences of being socialised into gender. Gender to me is partly how you're socialised from birth, and since transwomen were originally socialised to be men (against their will), I have to two different categories in my mind. I don't think one is better, or 'more womanly', than the other. I don't treat them any differently.

I don't consider them to be men, I consider them to be transwomen, which I see as a type of woman. Sorry, I'm just being honest. I know this isn't what you want to hear.

Last edited by puddingmouse on 26 Aug 2012, 10:14 am, edited 3 times in total.

I see them as surgically-altered revisions of their anatomically apparent birth gender.

What they believe does not make them what they are.

There is a difference between birth gender (or sex, more accurately) and the social aspects of gender.

Anyway, welcome back.

Thank you. It's good to be back.

I feel more sorrow than attraction for surgically-altered transgender people (but that's just me), and I'm not about to tell them that what they're having done to themselves is wrong. For all I know, there may really be something to their "God put me in the wrong body" claims.

Transgender peoples' brains are not all wired the same way.

I guess I am the only one here who does not understand any of this. My reasoning is that I have never felt as though I fit into this society of humans. I have never felt like I capable of understanding how to fit in. But I am a human. At least my body is. With that said how to these people know that they were born with the wrong genitals?

Not really, but I don't consider FAAB people to be women either, that's too gendered of a word. Transgender people pre-op, post-op, and cis-gender people all have the same status (for lack of a better word). I just don't have gender in my world view.

However, its very disrespectful to not treat these people as they want to be treated. It's disrespectful to do that to anyone.

Trans* women are women. period.

I'm not a transgender person, so I can't speak from experience. I gather it's sort of similar to knowing that you're homosexual or bisexual etc. It's a instinct within you. Perhaps it's simply realising that you associate better as a different gender.

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As for the original question...It depends on which context you're asking the question. If you mean genetically then it would be a person who has XX chromosomes. If you meant physically or anatomically then it would be based on genitalia. If you were asking in a psychological sense, then it would be dependant on a persons individual thought process, i.e.: if they considered themselves to be male or female. The answer is fluid.

What I find interesting is how such things would work in the case of male and female prisons. Obviously it would be an issue for an anatomically female person to be in a male prison. So does the legislation say? Or is there an allowance for transgendered people to be imprisoned in a special block or special protection unit? Anyone know?

No because their chromosomes say they are a man.