AS Women and Relationships

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^ well yes. all women with ASD's !

Okay, another question in regards to AS women and relationships: do any of you feel intimidated by men, or by the whole dating/relationship process? Does it feel natural, or unnatural to you? If you do feel intimidated, is it due to past experiences- or did you always feel that way- (i.e., due to lack of understanding of the social process involved)?

I´m just curious about that one.

I feel intimidated because few of the experiences I had in relationships one ended with me being yelled up at in a public place for a guy who tried to embarrass me because he felt I rejected him or was playing( no, it wasn't)
The second one getting mad with me, because he was also thinking I was fooling him around, ( also, I wasn't).
Not happy experiences to repeat again, as you all can see.

freakishly unnatural.
i talk intellectually and about special interests and myself do not know how to do much else.
I fared a bit better recently with another autistic person via skype. that is the best i have ever done.

By the way, i had sex for the first time without the aid of drugs or alcohol at age 37-38. That's a good indicator regarding my competence and feelings of ease regarding intimacy.

Everything about dating feels unnatural. Fractured. Confusing, Intimidating. Terrifying. But it has definitely improved since adolescence and the first half of my life.

Ditto for me, except I´m not sure it´s improved since adolescence! I think I feel just as bad, I can just cover it up better.

I feel totally intimidated by the whole social process of dating and relationships. I always felt this way. But when I was younger, I thought I was going to outgrow it; I thought that there was going to come a time when I would feel more comfortable, and know what was going on. This never happened. I basically don´t get out, and I pretty much never date. I know I should probably change this and make an effort, but I just don´t seem to be able to do this. I tried one singles event about 1 and 1/2 years ago, and I´m still recuperating from it.

Basically, all the relationships I´ve had were initiated by the men- (some of them initiated very strongly). If I´m interested in someone, I never know what to do about it really...I don´t seem to have the social skills to "get a man" on my own. I´m absolutely terrified of rejection (pre-relationship) and scared of doing things wrong (during the relationship). The fact that I´ve been criticized by men in the past, as well as teased and bullied by boys repeatedly in school hasn´t done much for my general confidence around men...(although I´m wondering now if boys and men just like to tease and put women down generally. Maybe I took it too literally all these years?). In any case, I do seem to inevitably piss men off in the end. So I don´t feel too confident about that. And the whole couples thing feels unnatural to me too...at least, socially.

I seem to do okay in regular, straightforward, literal (verbal) interactions- (this wasn´t always the case, this too was learned). But where I definitely have the most problems, still, is in dating/intimate relationship stuff. I guess because so much of it is supposed to be intuitive....

Yes, it is. I too feel like a mirror to the absurd. It's a dangerous, fascinating, position; never more so than in the past year. They (both my local Primary Care Trust and the professors) really have no logical responses to give other than to admit the absurdity of the position I've been forced into by various systems. But they always attempt to BS and give extremely illogical responses, which you wouldn't naturally associate with people in positions of great responsibility or learning. Those who advise me suspect they are actually quite afraid. Maybe I will become an artist; it was my original plan before I fell for science. I have worked my heart and guts out to make it work, and can't do more than that. I'll see what happens.




Thank you.




It's been a while since I met someone and dated, but I can remember how it felt with most.

I didn't so much feel intimidated by men as by people and the world in general. The entire process was awkward and always felt that way.

At first, I would not be able to determine whether I was actually dating someone or whether they were interested. If I noticed someone flirting with me (or, as in one case, suddenly telling me how much nicer I was than their partner and hugging me), I'd assume they wanted to be with me; however, they would become distant the next time we met, which was thoroughly confusing. It would also confuse me when someone touched me (e.g., my hands) and they didn't attempt to initiate a relationship, because I associated that with how relationships began.

While dating, I'd feel completely frozen, oppressed, and confused. I was often mute and would worry I was boring company, which some would confirm. I felt like I didn't exist when around them, which is true in the social sense; I had no clue about social identity. I had no idea others had different motivations and played games. The incongruity between my assumptions and observations would cause intense discomfort and disorientation.

I couldn't assert myself verbally in the slightest, but would often physically resist sexual advances. They would have sole control of the relationship, its nature, and duration. This was because I was clueless about boundaries, rights, expectations, and context, as well as lacking basic knowledge about how to navigate and understand the world (e.g., travelling, shopping, pubs and other venues, popular culture, food, and formal and informal social exchanges and norms.) I felt intimidated by everything.

i look back and in a way my years of drug addiction turned out to be a boon - because I was steered into a rehab system that was all about CBT and social skills training. I struggled more than others in that system - way more - but i learned. NA and AA has been similar. it has its problems, but without NA i know i would be completely isolated - just as I was before i went there. No-one in my life.

I spent a few ears in and out of the rehab system and then a couple of years forcing myself to daily NA meetings. I did not socialise and still do not socialise like others in NA, but i learned the fundamentals and it has been helpful. I still stick to myself, but i do have people in my life now and they all know i am a reclusive AS woman and they accept me on those terms. They are all ex-ratbags, half of whom have dual diagnosis issues, and all have lived at the edges of society. So i have found a band of ragged outsiders who are around and about, here and there.
But it is with other ASD people i get real identification.

Wow, that´s really interesting millie: thanks for sharing your story.

I think I´m lucky I was a dancer, because- eventually- I was able to identify with some other dancers. It´s probably one of the few careers where it is imperative to be totally dedicated, so at least I found others with the same intense, narrow interest. Though we may be different in some ways, I can connect through the dancing, and some similar feelings and experiences there. Of course, most of my friends happen to be gay men...which is great, but it doesn´t help my romantic life...

Yes, I´ve also had those experiences, of men giving some of those signals, but then next time, suddenly acting distant. Damned confusing, is what it is....

Oh, I just saw the last line of your post- I think I somehow missed it before... Yes, I also really identify with other ASD people!

I am pondering over relationship stuff yet again.
I have been duped yet again.
The problem is I take what men say to me so literally and I believe the "fluff" talk. "I am going to do this. I promise i will not hurt you... i will never hurt you... i commit to being respectful. yadda yadda yadda...."
THis happened again recently with an online situation. THe worst thing was it was with another person on the spectrum and i thought it was going really well.
We were skyping and it had reached a point where there was clear discussion about meeting up.
I found it really good to get to know this person via email initially - as i could process the words more clearly. Later we began to skype and i found that difficult but good. I relaxed with time and enjoyed it.

There is definitely a pattern with me with men. In spite of actions and behaviours (as Tantybi and MORgana discuss in a thread in the general section at present) I still rely primarily on words to work out what is going on. I am gullible. I am also naive.
The indicators may be that someone is spinning me along, and yet i will find there is a lot of confusion in me because I cannot reconcile actions and behaviours with the verbal expressions and so I tend to get really flustered. I am told I stay in situations way beyond what is healthy in relation to this inability to discern. And so I end up being emotionally hurt again and again.
It is as if I am a little kid.
It is a recurrent theme.
My staying in such situations is directly relating to what is verbally communicated by the other person. I take things literally and i believe things, where other women would straight away be suspicious because actions and words are not matching up.

It is a weird kind of pain I experience - as if i have been "duped" yet again...and as if there is a vast world of people out there who do not make sense to me.
This person promised me a lot and did not deliver. The committed to doing some things that meant an awful lot to me and i waited for four months and still nothing happened in terms of the commitments made.
Meanwhile - things were asked of me and I took the requests seriously and respected this person> I kept to my word as I always do.
I miss this person a lot, but i feel as if it is really important for me not to resume my relating, because they basically said they would do a whole lot of things - from sending certain emails and from sending some parcels - through to making plans to meet. Bit by bit, nothing really happened in any area. Parcels that were significant and which were promised were never sent.

I ran this over others, and their view was that i was being spun a doozy and that i was naive and crazy to be investing a lot in someone who would not even go down to the post office and post what they had promised.

It is the same pattern of my life over and over again. Trying hard to fit, trying so hard to extend and to meet someone emotionally...Putting so much energy into that and trying so hard - and then much, much later realising the person might have cared in a fantasy sense but would not commit this to any kind of practical reality.
and the excuse was always autism, executive dysfunction etc. But in other areas things just went along fine.

I am left feeling really confused again and I am left with a sense of a deeper lack of trust than i had already.
I wasn't even looking for anything> This person approached me. I feel hurt and devalued.

SO much for my earlier posts on this thread about the wonders of virtual relating.
I do not have much faith in my ability to have closeness with anyone.

i kept on thinking it was because of the autism that certain promises were not being fulfilled.
Was i duped? i don't know.
all i know is that people who know me said a friend does not make commitments and not carry them through, especially if they use the Love word....


scared to post this, but i will....

I'm sorry you're going through this. It's horrible and confusing to be let down; especially when it's already hard to read and trust people. Some of the severest pain can result from this.

Wherever other people are concerned, it means existing in a perpetual state of (severe) confusion, which drains enormous amounts of energy. What goes on in others' heads is a complete mystery. Often I cannot handle dealing with them and meltdown, so it's healthier when I'm alone (even when they are not being hurtful.)

I also understand the feeling of being devalued. It makes me feel a bit unclean/tainted/ridiculous.

This is very familiar; and sometimes these things drag on when they should have been ended years ago. Some people even stay in the same situation with a person for a lifetime.

One day, I hope to use such experiences for writing or art. Creating something from it's the only way I see it making some sense.

I hope you feel better soon.

millie: I am so sorry to hear that that happened to you! I know that you were hopeful about that person. I don´t even really know what to say, I´m sorry. Maybe there are no words for that kind of situation.

I do understand what you´re saying about trust being broken; after finding it hard to relate to people anyway, having your trust broken AGAIN when you are finally so hopeful is the most difficult thing. I have had many of these experiences too, and I´m finding it very hard to trust people (men) these days. It can be very difficult, because you make the decision to trust, you give so much, and in the end, when trust is broken, you feel devalued. At least you can know that you are in good company, many of us have had similar experiences. I think it´s such a shame that not much is known about women on the spectrum and relationships. All the books are geared for men, so we women can´t even really help ourselves that way, either. That was partly why I started this thread, the whole relationship thing is still a mystery to me and there aren´t even books to read about it, let alone any other kind of help to get. I believe women have a whole different set of challenges- (whoops- I guess I took that right from what´s-her-face Flaherty)- but, it´s true. There is so little known about what women experience, the "silent end of the spectrum". Actually, seeing as there are no books out there about women with AS and relationships, I was thinking to write one! Unfortunately, I have no advice to give. I don´t have any magic formula that will help other women (as well as myself): I truly wish I did! I have the feeling we are all groping in the dark. We use our skills in analyzing and systematizing to try to figure out the mystery. I guess we can at least try to help each other, by combining our skills and sharing our stories...that´s a start, anyway.

I´m sending you good vibes---

Oops, I hate it when the emoticons get off center like that...irritating to my eyes, I like symmetry.

^ Good idea with the emoticons. I too am not sure what to say. I'm disjointed after last night, feeling I was losing my mind.

Here's one from me:
And one from Catweazle:

Although I've never added to this thread, i'm grateful it's here. Mostly I read and think "same here"

Millie, sounds doubly betraying what happened. Despite my apparent subzero coldness, I can say I feel bad for/with you, hope the feeling doesn't endure or disrupt your peace of mind any longer (Sorry, how DO you phrase these empathy things? In a way you actually MEAN?)

That's an awful blow, particularly as with another AS person, I guess you probably felt you should go the extra mile in acceptance, applying the wished for "do as you would be done by" ideal. Just to find it's one sided.

I often have no insight, and sometimes wish I had a female "friend" (or at least objective female other perspective). Especially when posting on a thread is not an option. I can't say more, exactly for these reasons. I admire you for keeping your dignity (and yes, I think you are being dignified)