Things I have learned in life about being female

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The thread is being derailed by conflict and off topic posting. Let's call a halt to that right here, please. Peace.

OOM, I thought it was very nice of you to set up that forum (now I'm not so sure though) however shortly after I signed up there I decided to take a break from posting on any forums for awhile, partly because the recent drama here had stressed me out. I went into shut-down mode and the weather was nice so I spent a lot of time working out in my garden. It takes awhile for me to get used to a new website, usually when I sign up for a new forum it takes me a few months to get into it. Think what you want but as far as I'm concerned you really put your foot in your mouth with this wild theory of yours.

Here's another way to look at it...it only takes a few men, or worst case scenario, just ONE with no respect to give a woman a very negative message about herself.

I experienced childhood bullying and probably developed some kind of trauma, it took me a long time to not be scared of everyone.

Hopefully you can come to terms with your bad experiences.

Thank you slenkar, I am working on it.

I wanted to say that it would be a lot less offensive if you didn't say that only men do this, but now I understand that you had a reason. Maybe there's was this one man who did this and then you started noticing only men doing this. Sorry about your bad experience.

I'm interested in looking at the pressure to accommodate other people in space. What if we were to have a day of reflection when those of us who feel this pressure count the number of times we accommodate people in public spaces?

My favourate type is the where they don't make it really obvious and it doesn't overlap with parody. Quite subtle.

Even though sometimes, I miss it and it is at my expense.



Is it how you were feeling at the moment you experienced it? Or the the sentiment of that experience historically?

Feelings are not wrong on their own. Even if you felt sociopathic for a moment, it doesn't mean you would act on it.

Maybe call it internal realism or perceptual realism. There is a Berkeley/Kant divide there as far as experiences go.

I have been through period of my life were I was more withdrawn. As was explained to me, when that happens as you don't necessarily have all the information the brain tend to draw its own conclusions, this can cause anxiety paranoia, etc. Of course on top of that there are prats you encounter, bit there is no monopoly on prats, which is democratic activity.



Yes I do that camera / narrator thing. I also do it as other people sometimes.



Cross posting is against the rules, so I couldn't directly reference it.

I'm an extremely lateral person, so I see connections all the . Personally I don't think that touching politics slightly, if it is relevant is ok so long as the reply is whole and doesn't just cover the politics. But that is just me.

I was commenting on thoughts and behaviour too.

It is really hard for me to to see these subjects as nothing to do with politics.



I have seen it happen many a time. I follow activism, I'm aware of the movers and shakers, the social theories, etc. Activism is quite easily hijacked. Universities have had courses turn into these single narrative echo chambers. Universities are supposed to be about the free flow of ideas, so it is problem to be aware of.

Maybe it won't happen here. However I'm aware of logic that some of these groups have used to justify these policies. Most of it is well meaning but can be misguided and then you have the overt segregationist/supremacists too. I have heard some on WP some make arguments the have flavour of these these types of ideas, which are IMO very draconian.



I worded that badly. I think in any setting which has a degree of public exposure it should be open to discussion. Obviously the site itself is private, so we are here by privilege. However different people have been more or less persuasive as to what the direction of the site shoudl take. I wouldn't wan to see Wrong Planet to become compatmentlaised into mutually exclusive demographics, for one that doesn't even work. This is a criticism I have made against intesectionalism, it poses itself as this shared cause that aim to help oppressed groups but in practice is has divided an pigeon holed by this incessant need to catororied privilege/oppression in an overly simplistic way. Like it is something you can grade based on a point system, without knowing the individual.

That is why I was with the side the opposed the proponent of the ONLY clause.

There are some like my sister that would take an even dimmer view than I, of this sort of thing. Mainly becuase she sees it as an anathema to the strength and independence of women that they would even need such a special provision. At least that is the impression I get from her, from discussion with her on similar matters. Then again she is someone who takes no prisoners.

I personally I'm ok with the idea of the section. What I'm not cool with a platform where users are excluded based on demographic, and/or moderation is applied differently becuase you are only a tourist, and this group somehow cannot talk and hold their own, via HTTP post requests.

Maybe the women's section isn't meant to be political, but chances are there are threads here that are political in nature, they have an undercurrent within, which might not be challenged due to whatever arbitrary definition of political is applied to outsiders, not deemed helpful or supportive.



That your choice, there has to be some of us that do.

Please stop derailing this thread. It is not about you and your thoughts about the Women's Discussion forum and feminist activism and "echo chambers". It is about women sharing their experiences with personal space and social expectations and how that relates to our culture's gender role for women and how we interpret that personally and the sort of messages we have received from our culture about what our behaviour is supposed to be like. Stop trying to make it about you. Make your own thread in PPR or Wrongplanet.net forum if you want to discuss your thoughts about women's spaces and women's thoughts. You are being very pushy here with your own agenda for what you think the Women's Discussion forum should be like and it is not appropriate in this thread. How many times do you need to be told that and have the rules for this forum pointed out to you? Your obliviousness to the irony of your role in this discussion based on the OP and its context is staggering. Just stop.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I'm curious, why aren't the mods doing something about this?

That's a really great idea. I think it would interesting for both males and females. Some guys are brought up to be very accommodating or deferential to females in public (ladies first mentality). I think females are more likely to be brought up to be accommodating to other people in general. But some people of either gender aren't brought up that way and probably don't think much about it.

When I see parents with young children out in public, I notice how some teach their children to be aware of their surroundings, stay out of others' way, and some almost go overboard to the point that I feel sorry for the kid. And others let their children ramble all over or run around and don't seem to notice or care if they get in someone's way. I think the difference in how it affects someone's personality and sense of their place in the world must be huge.

Today I was out with my daughter, and I was standing still watching her from a distance. Two men walking together began approaching me, also from a distance in front of me. As they got closer, I realized they were headed straight at me. There was plenty of room all around for me to step aside (I was not in a crowded place at all) and I almost did. But then I felt curious. So I just stood where I was, and the two of them walked RIGHT up to me (about one foot away, no kidding) and then finally split and went around me. It was really awkward, as there was no spatial reason for it whatsoever. As I said, it wasn't a crowded area - it was basically just me and them.

Thank you. If you go back and read the OP, the topic is not "what I learned about men" but "what I learned about being female." I wrote about experiences that have sent me messages about what it means to be female, and so far I only touched on personal space and body issues. I didn't say that "only" men do any of those things, nor did I say that "all" men do those things.

This is also not about something that any "one" man did, but rather patterns I've noticed throughout my life, growing up, being around my family, at school (both public and private, and at college), at church, in various jobs, in public, in friendships, in romantic relationships, and so on.

In general, #1-6 are things I've experience far more often around men. #7 is probably split about half/half, coming from both women and men.

If I continue my list, I'd probably comment more on things that women do as well, but the thread keeps getting sidetracked. However, in general, I am less likely to internalize disrespectful behavior from women as a message about my gender, because it comes from my own gender instead of the opposite gender. It would be more likely to come across as a personal snub against me as an individual. So that would not fit on my list of "things I've learned about being female." Does this make sense?

Wilburforce pointed out how guys here try to explain to us here what our experiences are, and I commented that I don't take that as a message about being female. That's because I've experienced a lot of it from both males and females, and from people of all ages, and it doesn't seem to be directed at me because of any one thing such as my age or gender. I have definitely seen it directed at other women in a way that, from my perspective, seems to be about their gender. But when it comes to myself, I feel like it is more personally directed at me as an individual, like there is just something about me that makes people want to talk down to me.

I've been experimenting with this and frankly it's a little scary sometimes. I've had guys walking towards me in my direct path, just staring me down like they would not move for anything. Sometimes there would be other people around me where I really could not move comfortably in any other direction except towards them. If I stand my ground, they come up within inches of touching me and then move at the last second. Sometimes they do touch me as they brush past me.

Today I was walking out the double doors of a store as two men, who were not together, were approaching to come in from opposite directions on the sidewalk. I groaned inwardly because I could tell this was going to be awkward. I knew they would probably open both doors for me, and then stalemate each other about going through the door, which would end up blocking my path down the sidewalk. Well it was just a brief thing I noticed, but it looked like they were sizing each other up to see who should go first through the doors. I don't know if this was the reason, but the shorter man deferred to the taller one and let him go first.

That's the thing - it doesn't matter if they were doing it on purpose or they just didn't see you. It's no show of concern or effort to share space that really bothers me and makes me want to run all over people actually. Can we do that, have a day where we all just run over one another? It would make things a lot easier than guessing if I am about to get run over. Just run me over dammit and own the assault.

I'm going to think about upbringing. I'm afraid to spend a lot of time thinking about it, though. I've seen people commit some pretty malicious acts of space-taking and I'm tired of trying to break down why people can be so aggressive about it. I am so accustomed to people taking up my space it feels like I surrendered a long time ago. Probably in elementary school when we had to line up to go into class silently and the boys and girls were tailgating me. It seemed like I'd get in trouble if I said something.

Me too and I think it's why I struggle with agoraphobia and don't want to leave the house sometimes, it's the only place where I feel like I have my own space.