AS Women and Relationships

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^thanks all of you.

and then there is this difficult confusion....I am an ASD woman who wants relationships, but i tend to stay on my own most days because of the mystery and confusion of other people and then...the consequent stress and anxiety.
I know hundreds of people - and I am also a chameleon.
My relating with people one on one can be intense.
But it never has a fluidity about it that others have.
It is all analytical talk.

with this online relationship I was amazed how something was different with an ASD person.
Oh well.

I will get through all of this. And i will make sure I behave with dignity.
I never want to hurt people.

And at the heart of it all is a wish to treat myself and others with respect.
That is a good way to be. I'll hang onto that as a gift.
thanks people.

sorry about that problem on your relationship, really ..

For my part, how sick is to have to listen from the other people (mainly Nt's) 'ah, that's nothing', 'next time', .. , each time I have a failure attempting relating with somebody, or not being succesful when asking a guy out, or somebody breaking my heart ? Sure it may seem nothing for them, as they are get used to have superficial relationships in general, if a person is not worthy, then will be another one soon. But maybe if you're aspie female, like some of us, that we may not relate so fast with people, and when we do we do it with all our heart, is the same for them than for us ? I think it is not. Still, is difficult to find comprenhension out there about aspies emotions. What may seems the most important for them, to have a good job, a house and a car, it may be secondary for me, and what they find secondary it may be principal for me.

Over the past five years until now, I've been once in love, for almost three years or more, with no succeed at the end ( we were both still quite young about commitements) And from last year until now, is only the second time in my whole life ( I reached 27 last moth ) I think that I felt in love again, and things just went a little wrong for me last week, and nobody's (mainly Nt's) know how I feel, worse than losing my job, or maybe having no housing, not that I'm looking for being dramatic or overreact, not that I chose to see the things like I do, and feel like I feel, but the fact is that what differences me a little from most of the Nt's I have around is the different way we see and feel about love, money, life, .. Only one week ago I felt although I loved him, and this time he was the right guy, things just turned on the wrong way once again. Still, I didn't lose completely the faith, maybe things are not completely lost, because my second time I love someone else that is not me or my hobbies, and this time, only the second time for me but it would feel like if it was the fifth or the sixth already for a Nt maybe, , .. The good thing maybe I have is that I'd never let me going down myself to a point of not return I think. I never let me being so carried for another person, animal or object for forgetting about me. 10 points for me. But the negative is that although painful things already happened, they still happen and will hapen to me, ... But, Hei, I don't want any aspie being negative with life( maravellous per se), me the first, so positivism towards negativism is the only thing I have to say. a hug

Some good posts lately, thanks! And welcome to this thread.

millie brought up a good point which I wanted to add to the discussion (if I may); and that is, the tendency to stay in a relationship or situation too long. I know I have the tendency to do this too. In my case, I´m not sure if it´s taking words literally and being gullible- (though I have those problems too)- but I think it may be even more likely due to some kind of rigid thinking on my part. It´s happened to me quite a few times that I stayed in jobs, friendships, or relationships too long. I think in my case, if I´m in a certain situation- and my original feeling about it is "this is good, this is positive"- then no matter what happens, even when things start to go really bad, I can´t seem to change my original thought of "this is good, this is positive"; I tend to think that what´s happening are only minor setbacks, and that it will eventually get back to being "good" and "positive". Obviously, I can misread situations, and it´s hard for me to get out of one track of thinking and admit that something is not right. This has happened to me many times, actually. I was just curious if others relate to this.

On the other hand, once I finally get to the point that I realize that something really is a bad situation- though it may take me awhile to get there- I can leave the situation, without looking back. I know many NTs have a harder time doing that, because those who stick with those bad situations are often doing so on account of psychological and emotional reasons. Since my reasons are different- (misjudging the situation and rigid thinking)- once I know it´s time to leave, my logic takes over and I can leave.

^^ Yes yes, Morgana. I relate.
And for me too there is definitely the adherence to routine and rigidity, and the fact that once i introduce a new component into my life, departure is very difficult.
I build ruts, live in them and then proceed to furnish them, even when they are LOUSY ruts.

But once I leave - i can leave for good....
i have a string of people left behind me in my wake over the course of a lifetime. Usually though, i leave eventually because of deep hurt and having been wounded beyond repair, and unfortunately my naivety and gullibility contributes tot the compounding of the yucky damage.

A significant reason that I stayed too long in relationships was that I was dependant in terms of shelter, food, social contact etc., not due to money, because I used to make enough to live off, but due to the AS. When one of my longest relationships ended, I was distraught ... for 2-3 days, until I realised I would be living there as a lodger. It was not nearly as much to do with emotional attachment. That was a few years ago now and I've no contact with the people I knew back then and rarely think about them.

A few months before I left for good--once I had the next stage of life set up--I'd feel depair every day at the thought of it, even though I was being bullied there. But once I'd left, I didn't feel anything and forgot about the old place. I'd taken about a hundred photos of every corner of it in case I would miss it.

I easily get stuck in ruts in relationships. Often it's because they are my sole source of social contact. It's rarely because of an emotional bond. I've loved one person, but was not in a relationship with them. If I lost contact with them, I'd be distraught purely due to the emotional aspects.

I know I'm late to this thread...but the recent posts strike more of a chord. In the past, I seem to have gone through 3 phases with relationships, bewilderment, inertia and contempt...The minute I was in a relationship I was planning my exit. Often I did not get round to exit-ing till too late, by then the rot had set in and I felt nothing but stifled irritation.

Plus I realise I am as shallow as most men are accused of being, I once tried to "settle" for someone I didn't find attractive, (btw, convinced myself on grounds he was "nice person"...and actually he was not at all) The only break in the pattern, I felt flesh creeping loathing from the start...and self hatred for being like this. I still can't stand him, although based on his behaviour it is now justified.

I really should not bother, ever!

Oh yeah, there was another question I wanted to ask:

Did any of you have any trouble dealing with criticism?

I know I did. I learned quite recently- within the last 5 years- that people often say mean things to others, or "vent", just to let out their own emotional poison. In other words, when this happens, it´s more about them than it is about you. I learned this by reading the spiritual book "The 4 Agreements". I didn´t really realize this before because I tend to have a "live and let live" kind of attitude. I tend to allow people to be themselves, but in return, I expect them to allow me to be myself. If I ever did have to criticize or confront someone- (I hate confrontations, ugh!)- I would tend to speak the truth, rather than say something that was just designed to hurt them. So, it didn´t really occur to me that people- particularly in relationships with people who they supposedly "love"- would make hurtful comments that are not true. So, when men criticized me, I would take them literally and assume they were speaking the truth. I think I have years of psychological hurt which I haven´t really gotten over; I think I´m a bit screwed up by these comments from my past, though I´m not sure what to do about it. I´m sure that´s one of the things that makes me relationship shy.

I really do think men play a lot of mind games. I guess women do too, but it seems, based on my reading, that women are more likely than men to communicate verbally (and clearly) about what´s bothering them in a relationship, whereas men would resort to more passive-aggressive behavior- (in other words, more subconscious, non-verbal behavior; the very things autistic people have trouble with). This is one reason why I think AS women have it harder than men, when in a relationship with an NT.

Can anyone else relate to this criticism problem?

i am hyper hyper hyper-sensitive to criticism. I often mistake pure commentary for criticism largely because the life i have lived has meant most of the work in understanding and comprehending people has been analytical guesswork. Also, because of literal interpretation and then feeling let down by how others are so flippant (basically they are just being normal social creatures which makes no sense to me) i learned MISTRUST as the preferred mode of being and operating in relation to others. So, i have a tendency to find criticism, even when there is none.

I think these internal processes are very much a part of how some of us people with ASD's read the world - through a lens of mistrust, hurt and hypersensitivity. i don;t think it is an ideal way to live, and i spend a great deal of time challenging these ingrained tendencies in myself. staying positive is had work, but we ASD people have loads of perseverence, so we can achieve it and we can thrive and carve out really wonderful lives.

I am not really "live and let live" at all. I would like to be, but i cannot see that as a possibility because it entails more flexibility and less rigidity than i am able to exhibit in relation to other people. I can adopt a "live and let live" attitude on my own, but people are just too weird and mysterious face to face for that to be a possibility.


Still, at present i am working on careful strategies to develop more flexibility in my life. The grasp on "flexibility" as a concept and a practical approach is a tenuous one for me, but i am in there, giving it a go.


At present i am also experiencing an EPIPHANY which is making lists. Sounds basic, but because of my executive dysfunction, It has been hard stuff to learn. If i write lists each morning I can actually just follow them, keep the mind emptier and less ADHD frenetic, and just do what needs to be done. it is revelatory for me. I have only learned to implement this at 46. I am amazed.

Yes, I find lists very helpful. I basically need my lists and calendar to survive. It also took me a while to figure that out, too, but since I did, I´ve been a much happier- (as well as better organized)- person. Making lists and improving executive function has helped give me more control over my life, in terms of organizing time (and therefore being less frazzled all the time), as well as helping some with sensory issues and overall general health. Also what´s funny is, when I write something down, I remember it better than when I don´t...it´s like I can remember my lists better than other general information, because I wrote them down. Maybe the act of writing it down solidifies something in my brain. Not always, but often.

A side note: Morgana, I am precisely the same when it comes to remembering written things. I have always known that I learn better this way (it was blatantly obvious in school), but it has only been in the last year that I have started to employ it in my general life. I have started to keep lists at work, and many of my coworkers scoff at it (good-naturedly), but I find I am much better organised and I feel more secure being able to look at a list. It doesn't just mark out what I have left to do, but the little check marks highlight what I've accomplished and I find this works very well for me.

As to the main topic at the moment: response to criticism. A couple years ago I was in my one and only relationship (real one, anyway) to date, with a man who during the relationship would try to offer me 'constructive criticism'. To his credit, I THINK he was genuinely trying to help (at the time) because it was always delivered kindly and supportively. I didn't deal with it too badly, but it did make me feel a little insecure since previously I had been pretty comfortable being myself and had accepted my flaws as being what made me different. I've always found myself to be a bit susceptible to criticism (especially as a child) but going into adulthood I worked hard to protect myself from it and to take it on board without taking it personally.

And then.

When he left me I made the idiotic mistake of asking 'Why?' I did this because I didn't see the break-up coming (probably Aspie reasons there) and what I received in response was a biting and dare I say soul-crushing critique of all my problems and flaws which apparently by nature I could never change and which would, almost by definition, mean I would be alone forever.

Needless to say, I've struggled since to regain my previous resistance to criticism. It bothers me deeply, which I hate, and a perceived negative comment from anyone (no matter how innocuous) on certain subjects targeted by the above @$$hole is enough to make me sob myself to sleep at night. Work in progress.

It didn't occur to me criticism might be untrue and designed to hurt. I still think the person who criticised me the most believed what he said. In addition, he would be passive-aggressive and expect me to detect his annoyance (and its cause) from his facial expression.

Looking back, there's this facial expression he had which indicated anger. It took me years to recognise it because it was too subtle (from my point of view). I would be getting on with things, minding my own business, and he'd suddenly appear in the doorway with an expression resembling a cross between these (I know one's a cat)

I would feel happy to see him and assume he was also happy because his mouth would be sort of turned upwards. Therefore, I'd be unprepared for the cold-hearted criticism that would inevitably emerge. My failure to recognize the initial facial expression would make him far more irate and accusational.

He would criticise all kinds of things and believe they were intentional on my part, which is not in my nature. I described these accusations to a man I was later with, and he insisted they were untrue and that the guy was being a tw*t and had serious issues.

At the time, I would react to onslaughts of criticism with logic and reason. It took years to learn this didn't work. Even after he'd become my ex, I hadn't learnt, and remember him entering my room drunk one night while I was painting. He began an extremely long, drawn-out onslaught of criticism about me and the new person in my life. I just continued what I was doing, occasionally commenting, and finished the painting while he ranted the entire time. This sort of dissociated me, making the painting feel like my anchor, which I think made it turn out better.

The consequence of years of criticism (and bullying I haven't detailed) was becoming distrustful and paranoid. My nervous system is hyper-alert to signs of it. I don't think this prevents it happening, though, because I still remain too reasonable and naive to understand such behaviour, due to the autism.


greenlandgem: That sounds harsh. It can take time to recover.

That guy did exactly that!! ! Sometimes I detected it - I just assumed because he didn't say anything when I asked what was wrong that it didn't have to do with me and he didn't want to talk about it. Alas - I was wrong! Many times, apparently.

Now that I've realised that I have issues recognising anger and its causes, I have started to issue literal requests at the beginning of any relationship (friendship or otherwise) that people verbalise it - otherwise I might not even notice. This has had mixed success: friends are good about it, men (non-friend!) are not.

Also, outlier: thanks. It was harsh. And I am getting over it, slowly but surely. The problem was that his criticism was by and large spot on - although I had never thought that the traits he hated so much were that bad. It's hard to shake something when it's fact, even if it is just an opinion about a fact.

I've found that it seldom seems to work even with friends and acquaintances. No matter how much you try to 'warn' that you have difficulties reading expressions, knowing that something is wrong when nothing has been said verbally, etc., few NT people, in my experience, understand how literally you mean it. Because it's so very obvious to them, they simply cannot bring themselves to believe that somebody might not notice, and therefore, despite the warnings, you encounter the same problems all over again: hours/days of silence or coldness followed by an eventual explosion about how you 'must' have realized the problem, and how 'hurtful' you've been.

Yes, I´ve had this experience too, many times. Not being able to pick up on things, and always taking words literally.

Do any of you have an extra hard time reading the facial expressions of men? This may sound odd, but I think I can read women´s faces better (or gay men). I don´t know if this is just due to more practice (and my lack of experience with men ), or if it´s just that men tend to hide their emotions more. Also, women tend to be more vocal about what´s bothering them.

Well, I guess not always. When women keep it inside, I guess it´s also hard. So this is just a very general question. With a man, in terms of facial expression, I feel like I´m in a dead zone most of the time.

Sorry, I hope you don´t mind if I laugh, that just seemed really funny. (And a creative way of showing his expression, I´m trying to imagine what it looks like on a person). Anyway, it made my day.

Okay, I´m posting again, there´s still something on my mind about criticism....

First off, I´m sorry to hear about everyone who underwent difficult criticism in relationships. It sounds like it was a common theme for us. It can take years to get over- (I´m still trying to get over things).

I thought I´d try to explain what happened to me; don´t know if anyone can relate, or at least if anyone can give me an opinion about it. In my case, many of the things that happened in relationships- including breakups- were not that straightforward. Men rarely said things in a way that I could understand, so in interpreting all my relationship dynamics, I have to use a lot of analyzing and much guesswork to try to come up with some possible scenario about what really happened. I have a theory which I have developed partly based on my reading about psychology and social situations: don´t know if it´s right though. I really and truly am confused about relationships.

In my case, the same pattern usually occurred over and over again. In the beginning, most men seemed really "into me"- almost exaggeratedly so...(it´s hard for me to be that emotional about someone I barely know, so that´s hard for me to understand). As time went on, they seemed to become slowly more and more agitated, often telling me about things that had them upset- (but usually things that didn´t apply to me: work, etc.) Over time, they seemed more and more upset by me too, but it was hidden and passive aggressive at first...a few sudden nasty comments here and there, some mind games- (which I usually missed, I think), or small, unimportant criticisms. Eventually, it would get worse until it seemed like I was the enemy. I ended up in a lot of "love-hate" relationships, which I really don´t like....not only do I not like them, but I don´t understand them!

Many of the men acted as if I emasculated them somehow, or as if I offended them. They seemed to be very threatened by me. I had no idea why, because I always felt like I tried so hard, and I never really got any clear feedback about what I was "doing wrong"- (except maybe the special interest thing, people were threatened by that). I thought I was a good person, so I was confused. When the men were feeling like this, they then started to make personal verbal attacks against me: very personal, about my sexuality. These were painful, as I´ve also experienced so much rejection, so I began to think maybe they were true. I have some kind of sexual paranoia after these comments, I think. I lack confidence when it comes to seducing a man. Not only that, but I always misread signals anyway, either it´s the wrong place, the wrong time, the wrong person...who knows. I´ve become totally love-shy. This is a shame, because when I was younger, I had a very healthy sexuality, and I felt much more confident. People told me I was attractive, and I fully expected to have good experiences. Ha! That all changed, and it´s all because of experience.

I now wonder if I didn´t act enough like the "typical woman", or if, from the men´s mind, the dynamics were off. Now that I´m reading more about sex roles- (I didn´t realize people took this stuff so seriously!)- I wonder if something I did made men feel unconfident about their sexuality, or if I seemed to take over more the role of the man somehow...maybe that was why they made comments against my sexuality? Maybe they weren´t true all this time?

Ah, I don´t know. Who knows...